# Peggy Noonan: Is this thang on? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905 "2008-09-03T21:59:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/1 "2008-09-03T21:59:48Z")
Peggy “No New Taxes” Noonan wrote a magnificent WSJ editorial about the power of the Palin addition to the ticket. > [@](#): > > Because she jumbles up so many cultural categories, because she is a feminist not in the Yale Gender Studies sense but the How Do I Reload This Thang way, because she is a woman who in style, history, moxie and femininity is exactly like a normal American feminist and not an Abstract Theory feminist; because she wears makeup and heels and eats mooseburgers and is Alaska Tough, as Time magazine put it; because she is conservative, and pro-2nd Amendment and pro-life; and because conservatives can smell this sort of thing – who is really one of them and who is not – and will fight to the death for one of their beleaguered own; because of all of this she is a real and present danger to the American left, and to the Obama candidacy. > > She could become a transformative political presence…So they are going to have to kill her, and kill her quick. Apparently, this Thang was on when Noonan said that, well, it’s over. > [@](#): > > The conversation gets really good when Todd wonders, “Do you think the Palin pick is insulting to Democrats? Is the really the most qualified woman they could have turned to?” > > Everyone agrees that, no, Palin is not the best choice. Says the pessimistic journalist, “I think they went for the - excuse me - political bullshit about narratives… Every time Republicans do that, because that’s not where they live and that’s not what they’re good at, and they blow it.” Todd agrees the party went for the narrative. > > Murphy, an informal McCain adviser and personal friend, then says the worst thing is the cynicism of McCain’s decision, while Todd describes it as “gimmicky.” Earlier in the tape, Noonan describes the race as “over.” Despite her dishonesty, Noonan is an excellent writer and a smart lady. Is she right? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/2 "2008-09-03T22:06:26Z")
A full transcript can be found here: [Chicago News - Chicago Tribune - Chicago Tribune](http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/09/palin_means_its_over_peggy_noo.html) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/3 "2008-09-03T22:09:58Z")
And [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o8XBJfIS7c) is the youtube link. Edit: changed link since first one went down fast. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/4 "2008-09-03T22:14:11Z")
I think it’s a perfect window into the Brave Face/United Front that certain (but not all) factions of the GOP are showing to the public while secretly knowing that this was, for a variety of reasons, an undeniably cynical and pandering choice by their candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/5 "2008-09-03T22:16:35Z")
With the speed that this is circulating, I am speculate how many people will see this before she speaks tonight. What affect will this have on the way you receive her speech? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/6 "2008-09-03T22:21:48Z")
It’s amazing how much more thoughtful and interesting they all get when they’re saying what they actually think. I think Murphy nailed it best when he said the saddest part is that this was a cynical pick for McCain but “McCain’s greatness is no cynicism.” ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/7 "2008-09-03T22:29:43Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > With the speed that this is circulating, I am speculate how many people will see this before she speaks tonight. > > What affect will this have on the way you receive her speech? Why would it? So three pundits are bloviating while the cameras are off. This changes things how? Now, if you’d caught McCain saying this, you’d have something. The best lesson to be learned from this for Republican pundits is that the media is not their friend, and even if the network wouldn’t screw them by distributing their off-air commentary to the world, the earnest young recording engineer with the Obama button on his jacket just might… The person who comes out of this the worst is Peggy Noonan, unfortunately. Because she has a reputation that is supposed to be above this sort of thing to a certain degree. The other two are just political operatives. Of course they’re cynical - that’s the playground they play in. Noonan is supposed to be more inspirational than cynical. That’s her brand, and she’s tarnished it. Of course, she’s not the one who did most of the talking, and the sentence or two she said was slightly ambiguous enough that she might try to claim she was misunderstood. Mike Murphy is in a world of hurt in terms of his career, I’d guess. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/8 "2008-09-03T22:33:50Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > And [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o8XBJfIS7c) is the youtube link. > Edit: changed link since first one went down fast. What’s the correct link? I want to see this. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/9 "2008-09-03T22:34:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Why would it? So three pundits are bloviating while the cameras are off. This changes things how? You do not believe that Republican elites showing no confidence in the current ticket is not going to change anything? I assert otherwise, especially in the case of Peggy Noonan. She wrote an over the top yet extremely compelling piece on Palin not this morning yet obviously has no confidence in this candidacy. The players here are not random, know-nothing blowhards. Why shouldn’t people take this seriously? > [@](#): > > The best lesson to be learned from this for Republican pundits is that the media is not their friend No. The best lesson to be learned for Republican pundits is that they need to refamiliarize themselves with Rule #1 of broadcasting: the mic is always on. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/10 "2008-09-03T22:45:56Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Why would it? So three pundits are bloviating while the cameras are off. This changes things how? It lifts the veil a little on what the insiders really think. > [@](#): > > The best lesson to be learned from this for Republican pundits is that the media is not their friend, and even if the network wouldn’t screw them by distributing their off-air commentary to the world, the earnest young recording engineer with the Obama button on his jacket just might… Please, you think they wouldn’t do this if they caught…say…Jesse Jacksom syaing he wanted to cut Obama’s nuts off? Oh, wait, they did. The lesson is that there’s no such thing as a cold mike. It’s not partisan. If they had caught somebody like Carville and Donna Brazile smacktalking Obama, you think they’d bury it? > [@](#): > > The person who comes out of this the worst is Peggy Noonan, unfortunately. Because she has a reputation that is supposed to be above this sort of thing to a certain degree. The other two are just political operatives. Of course they’re cynical - that’s the playground they play in. Noonan is supposed to be more inspirational than cynical. That’s her brand, and she’s tarnished it. > > Of course, she’s not the one who did most of the talking, and the sentence or two she said was slightly ambiguous enough that she might try to claim she was misunderstood. > > Mike Murphy is in a world of hurt in terms of his career, I’d guess. I don’t see how any of them come off badly. They didn’t say anything offensive or untrue. Murphy even praised McCain. And since when is Noonan not cynical. She does snark, not inspiration. She’s the Republican Maureen Dowd. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/11 "2008-09-04T00:58:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Why would it? So three pundits are bloviating while the cameras are off. This changes things how? > > Now, if you’d caught McCain saying this, you’d have something. > > The best lesson to be learned from this for Republican pundits is that the media is not their friend, and even if the network wouldn’t screw them by distributing their off-air commentary to the world, the earnest young recording engineer with the Obama button on his jacket just might… > > The person who comes out of this the worst is Peggy Noonan, unfortunately. Because she has a reputation that is supposed to be above this sort of thing to a certain degree. The other two are just political operatives. Of course they’re cynical - that’s the playground they play in. Noonan is supposed to be more inspirational than cynical. That’s her brand, and she’s tarnished it. > > Of course, she’s not the one who did most of the talking, and the sentence or two she said was slightly ambiguous enough that she might try to claim she was misunderstood. > > Mike Murphy is in a world of hurt in terms of his career, I’d guess. Sam, do your shoulders ever get tired from carrying all their water? ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/12 "2008-09-04T01:01:43Z")
I just want to point out that although many of the headlines are saying something like “hot mike catches GOP insiders trashing Palin”, technically speaking Noonan and Murphy were trashing the decision to nominate Palin. The worst thing they said about the nominee herself was that she was not the most qualified woman for the job. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/13 "2008-09-04T01:21:48Z")
I’m just thrilled that Republicans who aren’t just holding out for a strong pro-lifer are not nearly as happy about this as they appear to be on camera. Peggy Noonan pretty much got caught lying about how much she likes Palin, and about the chances for the campaign. I feel validated. I now know that people who think about politics professionally and who do want to see McCain in office also think that Palin was a blunder. It’s not just partisanship or ignorance on my part that makes me feel that way. No, this itself won’t matter, but the attitude revealed will. Noonan and Murphy can’t be the only ones who feel this way. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/14 "2008-09-04T01:27:15Z")
[Peggy Noonan Responds](http://online.wsj.com/public/article/declarations.html) ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/15 "2008-09-04T01:28:53Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The best lesson to be learned from this for Republican pundits is that the media is not their friend This is the funniest thing I’ve read all week. The mainstream media loves conservative pundits. They would marry them if they could. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/16 "2008-09-04T01:35:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > [Peggy Noonan Responds](http://online.wsj.com/public/article/declarations.html) Wow, what a masterpiece of obfuscatory, revisionist, backscrabbling, media blaming bullshit. Too bad it’s too late. The toothpaste is out of the tube. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/17 "2008-09-04T01:57:40Z")
A funny gaffe (as was the Jesse Jackson episode), but not meaningful. I regret that there are so few pundits who are willing to abandon their partisanship in order to say what they really think. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/18 "2008-09-04T02:08:57Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > [Peggy Noonan Responds](http://online.wsj.com/public/article/declarations.html) Yeah, that’s bullshit. And again, I don’t think this thing has legs. It’s way too inside baseball for that. Way too easy to spin Noonan and Murphy as mavericks (lol) or buy some bullshit like the above. While I can’t believe that their attitude is exactly rare in the GOP, I have way to know whether or not they’ll still give McCain their all. I just like it for the thing that it is. Ahhh. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/19 "2008-09-04T02:09:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Wow, what a masterpiece of obfuscatory, revisionist, backscrabbling, media blaming bullshit. To [paraphrase the Master](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/45/was-nostradamus-really-able-to-predict-the-future), this does for bullshit what Stonehenge did for rocks. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905/20 "2008-09-04T02:23:28Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Why would it? So three pundits are bloviating while the cameras are off. This changes things how? Sounds more like the bloviation was happening when they knew the cameras were _on_. > [@](#): > > The best lesson to be learned from this for Republican pundits is that the media is not their friend Yeah, I’ll believe that when the media stop giving air time to blatantly lying right-wing gasbags. Now that Murphy and Noonan have, “off-air,” admitted that they were bullshitting the audience when they knew the mic was on, do you think they’ll have any problems getting on teevee in the future? Hell, do you think any of their fellow pundits will even _ask_ them about this moment, on-air? > [@](#): > > The person who comes out of this the worst is Peggy Noonan, unfortunately. Because she has a reputation that is supposed to be above this sort of thing to a certain degree. Whoa - she’s got a _reputation_. I keep hearing this stuff from conservatives lately on this board. Can we stop confusing _reputation_ with _reality_? > [@](#): > > The other two are just political operatives. Of course they’re cynical - that’s the playground they play in. Noonan is supposed to be more inspirational than cynical. That’s her brand, and she’s tarnished it. Oooh - her _brand_. Yeah. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/peggy-noonan-is-this-thang-on/461905.md?page=2)