# Pelosi's Palatial Plane Preference: Piggishness or Republican Pablam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 8, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385 "2007-02-08T18:40:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/201 "2007-02-17T05:17:34Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Using military aircraft rather than commercial flights and a private plane is a perk? [/QUOTE] Why not? Most of the military planes (at least the staff planes) have roomier seats, no waits in crowded terminals or getting stuck behind some doofus at the security scanner who wants to argue about what s/he should be allowed to bring aboard, no fighting with terminal cab and commuter traffic at the commercial airport, no waiting for luggage at the carousel, etc. Sounds “perky” to me. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/202 "2007-02-17T05:28:21Z")
Good points. But I suspect a Speaker of the House wouldn’t at least have to put up with crowded terminals and cabs. There are certainly good points about choosing that over the alternative. But I would suggest that a perk is a benefit you get without some kind of job-affecting reason. You work in a bakery, maybe you get to take bread home at the end of the day. It just helps you, it doesn’t affect your ability to do your job in such a big way. Getting a free drink for being in business class is a perk. OTOH, getting a flight that’s guaranteed to wait for you if you’re late and would be quicker to pack, fly, and unpack with? That’s actually helpful for your job. Taking a commercial flight? Eh, it’s likely more of a hassle. But the perks of taking a commercial flight i’d say are greater than the perks of taking a USAF plane… even if we include roomier seats. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/203 "2007-02-17T05:42:50Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Good points. But I suspect a Speaker of the House wouldn’t at least have to put up with crowded terminals and cabs. There are certainly good points about choosing that over the alternative. But I would suggest that a perk is a benefit you get without some kind of job-affecting reason. You work in a bakery, maybe you get to take bread home at the end of the day. It just helps you, it doesn’t affect your ability to do your job in such a big way. Getting a free drink for being in business class is a perk. OTOH, getting a flight that’s guaranteed to wait for you if you’re late and would be quicker to pack, fly, and unpack with? That’s actually helpful for your job. Taking a commercial flight? Eh, it’s likely more of a hassle. But the perks of taking a commercial flight i’d say are greater than the perks of taking a USAF plane… even if we include roomier seats. 😉 [/QUOTE] I’m not sure people understand what a [G-III](http://www.aircraftdealer.com/dealers/l/leadingedgeaviationsolutions/11184/big_GIII%20333%20int4_e.jpg) is really like. This is serious luxury right down to the woodwork. The interiors are all custom made. It comes with a crew of 2, which is not a bad ratio for 10 passengers. You’re not going to a terminal, you’re going to an FBO (fixed base operator). These companies are set up to cater to wealthy clients. You pull up to a waiting limo and you’re gone. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/204 "2007-02-17T05:45:54Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] I’m not sure people understand what a [G-III](http://www.aircraftdealer.com/dealers/l/leadingedgeaviationsolutions/11184/big_GIII%20333%20int4_e.jpg) is really like. This is serious luxury right down to the woodwork. The interiors are all custom made. It comes with a crew of 2, which is not a bad ratio for 10 passengers. You’re not going to a terminal, you’re going to an FBO (fixed base operator). These companies are set up to cater to wealthy clients. You pull up to a waiting limo and you’re gone. [/QUOTE] Wow, that interior picture IS impressive. Fair enough. I was picturing an actual combat plane, albeit a relatively tarted up one. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/205 "2007-02-17T06:06:42Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] I find myself confused. Using military aircraft rather than commercial flights and a private plane is a perk? Do the Air Force provide inflight meals, your choice of alcohol, and films now? Comfy seats? Do I get some nice frequent flier miles from USAF if I take a trip? 5 rides and I get a free helicopter embassy extraction! You suggest that an FBO in an airport might be more dangerous. I can see your point; someone could just walk in there. Oh, wait, except… how do these people know what plane she’s on, and where she’ll be landing? It’s not like there’s some list of all military aircraft flights online somewhere, so that people could check where the plane stops and at what times it leaves and arrives. And hey, lucky that no-one other than Air Force personnel will be on those planes with her. Good thing it’s so similar for commercial flights, huh? [/QUOTE] On preview I see that your misperception has been straightened out. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/206 "2007-02-17T16:25:51Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Wow, that interior picture IS impressive. Fair enough. I was picturing an actual combat plane, albeit a relatively tarted up one. [/QUOTE] Keep in mind you were looking at the utility version used for hauling people. A private G-III would probably be closer to [this](http://www.atlantajet.com/_images/aircraft/Gulfstream/G_II_B_SN_004/View_6_1200x800.jpg). At this level of airplane they are all custom built. Kinda puts a damper on retirement when you lose the use of the company limo. You’d need a J-bar to pry me out of a G-III on the last day. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/207 "2007-02-17T16:40:33Z")
I’m not impresed by this new “that was my point all along”. I already knew how modified the interior was, that was the first hint showing the idea of using the published normal specks to be misleading. So now the idea is to say it was a perk to Hastert so Pelosi should not use it, sorry, the enhanced communications and other security features justified their use, unless we are ready to say the enhanced features are unnecessary then the question would be why no Republican protested their use or abuse by the former speaker, and another question: so the security levels mentioned before to justify their use were exaggerated and only because now it is the democrats turn **some** Republicans are telling the truth? [QUOTE=Magiver] Deal with the fact that a seasoned congresswoman got her hand caught in the perks cookie jar. [/QUOTE] So how then it is the fault of Pelosi that the perk has also other capabilities that will be useful in an emergency? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/208 "2007-02-17T22:20:52Z")
**Magiver** , you do know that bizjet interiors are all custom, details chosen by the customer, not stock from the factory, right? You have \*no \* knowledge of what interior USAF chose to install in its own, even though it’s a safe assumption it isn’t all economy-class airline seats. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/209 "2007-02-17T22:58:39Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] I’m not impresed by this new “that was my point all along”. I already knew how modified the interior was, that was the first hint showing the idea of using the published normal specks to be misleading. So now the idea is to say it was a perk to Hastert so Pelosi should not use it, sorry, the enhanced communications and other security features justified their use, unless we are ready to say the enhanced features are unnecessary then the question would be why no Republican protested their use or abuse by the former speaker, and another question: so the security levels mentioned before to justify their use were exaggerated and only because now it is the democrats turn **some** Republicans are telling the truth? So how then it is the fault of Pelosi that the perk has also other capabilities that will be useful in an emergency? [/QUOTE] How modified the interior was? What are you talking about? Seriously, I have no idea where you’re going with this. I’ve restored airplanes from the ground up and I’ve modified them. I understand the certification process. You can’t add a bracket to a radio stack without showing the calculations made for the bend in the sheet metal used. If you have a point, make it and back it up with numbers. There is nothing you can do to the interior to change the specs of the aircraft. I gave the specs **(from the Air Force)** fully loaded of the lesser of the aircraft. It doesn’t matter if you fill it with Republicans, cans of Spam, or good intentions. All the relevant flight specs remain the same. It’s a luxury jet and it’s a perk that was created by Republicans. How do not understand this? If you don’t question where your tax dollars go then who will? I’ve planned for my retirement but I’m probably older than you are so you’ll be footing the bill for my beer money. I’d like to think you’d be celebrating tax freedom day sometime before Christmas. Politicians are happy as clams to see us arguing over which luxury jet they get to fly in. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/210 "2007-02-17T23:30:44Z")
Irrelevant anyhow. Now if you do want to make a thread on the last item be my guest, in the end all the points brought forward by the Republicans were not true. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/211 "2007-02-17T23:50:04Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] I understand the certification process. [/quote] Then you understand it’s a civilian procedure. Doesn’t apply to the military. The various branches each establish their own \*qualification \* (the military term) requirements for each system. The acceptance and maintenance standards for aircraft in the VIP fleet, those assigned to the 89th, are normally even stricter than for normal military aircraft. Please do try saying something relevant to some point relevant to this discussion, will you? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/212 "2007-02-18T03:12:37Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Then you understand it’s a civilian procedure. Doesn’t apply to the military. The various branches each establish their own \*qualification \* (the military term) requirements for each system. The acceptance and maintenance standards for aircraft in the VIP fleet, those assigned to the 89th, are normally even stricter than for normal military aircraft. Please do try saying something relevant to some point relevant to this discussion, will you? [/QUOTE] I’d answer you but I don’t know what you’re trying to say. The stats I posted for the C-20 are from the Air Force. What are you disagreeing with? It’s Saturday night and I’ve got things to do so I’ll leave you to your thoughts. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/213 "2007-02-20T21:12:44Z")
[Putnam Emerges As GOP’s Top Aggressor](http://www.tbo.com/news/nationworld/MGB16WIUDYE.html) > [@](#): > > Putnam now acknowledges he had no personal knowledge of any Pelosi request. He said he was commenting on an anonymously-sourced story in The Washington Times and additional coverage from CNN. > > “This was a classic case where the media got out in front of us,” Putnam said. “Did we jump on it? Yes.” > > And he is unapologetic about that. He calls the Pelosi plane story, whatever its legitimacy, “the first break [Republicans] have had from the media in driving our message since before the Mark Foley story broke.” It’s nice to see Republicans so openly flaunt their lack of honor. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2007, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/214 "2007-02-21T08:03:54Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] … It’s nice to see Republicans so openly flaunt their lack of honor. [/QUOTE] Hey. It’s their biggest selling point! Don’t you know about their following in the military? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/215 "2007-02-21T14:55:31Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] Hey. It’s their biggest selling point! Don’t you know about their following in the military? [/QUOTE] Yeah, I bet they get lots of votes from [the Iraqi vets at Walter Reed](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/17/AR2007021701172.html). ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2007, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/216 "2007-02-21T15:29:05Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] A private G-III would probably be closer to [this](http://www.atlantajet.com/_images/aircraft/Gulfstream/G_II_B_SN_004/View_6_1200x800.jpg). [/QUOTE] No comment on the manufactured political brouhaha, but I have to say, I bet that gold-plating the seat belts makes them _extra_ effective in holding someone securely to the couch when the jet lawn-darts into the turf. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/217 "2007-02-26T10:42:43Z")
I’m amazed this thread has run so long – and also that the comic strip “Prickly City” got an entire week out of pretending there was some sort of scandal here. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2007, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385/218 "2007-02-26T14:20:23Z")
[QUOTE=Baldwin] I’m amazed this thread has run so long – and also that the comic strip “Prickly City” got an entire week out of pretending there was some sort of scandal here. [/QUOTE] You should see their latest - Carmen asks why she shouldn’t doubt man-made global warming. Winslow tells her it’s because if she does, the media will jump all over her. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-palatial-plane-preference-piggishness-or-republican-pablam/391385.md?page=10)