# Pelosi's trip to Syria **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2007, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565 "2007-04-03T15:43:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/1 "2007-04-03T15:43:17Z")
Bush just blasted Pelosi for going to Syria, saying it’s “counterproductive” and sends “mixed signals” to the Assad government. Story [here.](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/04/03/international/i065426D22.DTL&type=politics) Will her trip yield any beneficial results? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/2 "2007-04-03T15:47:12Z")
[HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070402/mideast-pelosi) They will run into a wall if they take off with this story. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/3 "2007-04-03T16:02:56Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] They will run into a wall if they take off with this story. [/QUOTE] 😕 Bush, Pelosi, or Assad? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/4 "2007-04-03T16:13:21Z")
If president Bush is to have any credibility with his bitching, he must first attend to beam in _his own_ party’s eye: > [@](#): > > Three Republican congressmen — Frank Wolf, Joe Pitts and Robert Aderholt — were in Syria on Sunday, where they met with Assad. They said they believed there was an opportunity for dialogue with the Syrian leadership. > **[The Seattle Times | Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment,...](https://www.seattletimes.com)** > > Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment, travel, restaurants and opinion for Seattle and the Pacific Northwest. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/5 "2007-04-03T16:18:12Z")
Bush will run into a problem, explaining how the Repubs that were there before her were not guilty of the same imagined offense. ---
**Author:** ![Elsie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b2d939/32.png) [@Elsie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elsie)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/6 "2007-04-03T16:18:29Z")
Bah. Brand separation. Not even Coke and Pepsi, more like Coke and Diet Coke; ‘the kinder, gentler, sugar-free face of imperial conquest’. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/7 "2007-04-03T16:28:31Z")
Honestly I can’t imagine Pelosi would say anything wildly different then what Bush would say when meeting with Assad: Don’t screw around in Lebannon, Democracy==Good, please don’t give people guns to shoot at us in Iraq, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/8 "2007-04-03T16:47:24Z")
Eh, predictable really. Bach in the '90s people like Tom Friedman were saying the same thing about Gingrich’s foreign trips. Just the normal push and shove of politics. I don’t put too much stock in it unless those people going over get it into their heads to do some negotiating with those leaders. That’s a power the Executive Branch alone has. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/9 "2007-04-03T21:22:43Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I don’t put too much stock in it unless those people going over get it into their heads to do some negotiating with those leaders. That’s a power the Executive Branch alone has. [/QUOTE] While I agree that on the whole, it makes more sense for negotiations with other countries to be done by the Executive or his formal or informal agents, I don’t see that spelled out anywhere that the respective branches’ powers are defined. In fact, just the opposite - Congress, in Article I, Section 8, has the powers to lay and collect duties (presumably import duties, i.e. tariffs), to regulate commerce with foreign nations, to borrow money (presumably from other countries, back in that era) on the credit of the United States, to regulate the value of foreign currency, and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/10 "2007-04-03T21:38:21Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Just the normal push and shove of politics. I don’t put too much stock in it unless those people going over get it into their heads to do some negotiating with those leaders. That’s a power the Executive Branch alone has. [/QUOTE] Negotiating is a power? It’s basically a fancy way of saying talking. Being able to enter into binding agreements with other countries would be a power, but that’s something that neither Pelosi or the Bush can do unilaterally. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/11 "2007-04-04T01:46:22Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Eh, predictable really. Bach in the '90s people like Tom Friedman were saying the same thing about Gingrich’s foreign trips. [/QUOTE] Unless Mr. Friedman (or better yet, Bill Clinton) was chastising Newt while at the same time ignoring foreign trips taken by Congressional Democrats, your comparison is not valid. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/12 "2007-04-04T14:10:49Z")
A quiet admission that kicking Syria out of The Lebanon led to chaos might go down well. Heck, they took over after the Israelis marched out, and they (the Syrians) did a good job (subject to the missile build up) I have a vested interest, a friend of mine speny some time over there, and he said the Roman remains were profoundly interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/13 "2007-04-04T14:45:52Z")
‘The Decider’ (spelled ‘Dictator’) is all sulky and pouty because he’s supposed to be the Supreme Boss of Everything and somebody’s doing something he doesn’t want her to. Boo hoo. He Decided to ignore the very good advice he was given to negotiate with Syria. Props to Pelosi for doing what Shrub is too stubborn/stupid to do. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/14 "2007-04-04T14:55:04Z")
Actually, [Bush did criticize the Republican delegation.](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/04/20070403.html) > [@](#): > > I’ll now answer some questions, starting with Jennifer Loven. > > Q Thank you, sir. You agreed to talk to Syria in the context of – > > THE PRESIDENT: Excuse me? > > Q You’ve agreed to talk to Syria in the context of the international conferences on Iraq. What’s so different or wrong about Speaker Pelosi having her own meetings there? And are you worried that she might be preempting your own efforts? > > THE PRESIDENT: We have made it clear to high-ranking officials, whether they be Republicans or Democrats, that going to Syria sends mixed signals – signals in the region and, of course, mixed signals to President Assad. And by that, I mean, photo opportunities and/or meetings with President Assad lead the Assad government to believe they’re part of the mainstream of the international community, when, in fact, they’re a state sponsor of terror; when, in fact, they’re helping expedite – or at least not stopping the movement of foreign fighters from Syria into Iraq; when, in fact, they have done little to nothing to rein in militant Hamas and Hezbollah; and when, in fact, they destabilize the Lebanese democracy. So let’s dispense with that little canard. Bush doesn’t like it when people go over and give Assad some face-time legitimacy. Now, this position can be defended or criticized, but let’s not pretend it was a partisan attack. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/15 "2007-04-04T14:56:23Z")
She’s certainly within her rights to go. I recall such trips by Jim Wright, Newt Gingrich and Denny Hastert when each was Speaker - never to as controversial a semi-enemy as Syria, though. If she’s made to look like Assad’s patsy, it could hurt her and the House Dems politically. Hope some good comes of the trip, but I have my doubts. Another article: [http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/04/pelosi.mideast.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/04/pelosi.mideast.ap/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/16 "2007-04-04T14:58:03Z")
I find especially amusing the very slight scent of condescension I perceive from the treatment Pelosi et al. are giving to Bush’s complaints. The subtext, it seems to me, is dismissive with a touch of contempt: “George can say whatever he likes, we’re doing this anyway.” They’re treating him as increasingly irrelevant in his own government. “He bitched about it, did he? Huh, isn’t that interesting. Okay, now, on to business.” Must drive the Deciderer frakking _nuts._ ---
**Author:** ![Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c4cdca/32.png) [@Quiddity\_Glomfuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiddity_Glomfuster)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/17 "2007-04-04T15:13:06Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] So let’s dispense with that little canard. Bush doesn’t like it when people go over and give Assad some face-time legitimacy. [/QUOTE] Oh balderdash. You can’t use diplomacy to resolve disputes when you refuse to engage in it. Shrub thinks that him ignoring people somehow will drive them to want to kowtow to him and please him. Well, how’s that been working for him thus far? :rolleyes: He’s clearly clueless in matters of foreign diplomacy. Thank heavens there’s finally some members of Congress willing to do the kind of work that Dub is incapable of performing welll. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/18 "2007-04-04T15:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Actually, [Bush did criticize the Republican delegation.](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/04/20070403.html) So let’s dispense with that little canard. Bush doesn’t like it when people go over and give Assad some face-time legitimacy. Now, this position can be defended or criticized, but let’s not pretend it was a partisan attack. [/QUOTE] I don’t know about other people, but I know that I was more interested in seeing specific criticism against republican delegates, for doing the same thing Pelosi is doing (since the White House has singled out Pelosi by name, mentioning that her actions are “sending the wrong message”). I came across this particular story, which should help in putting that dog to rest, though. This story reinforces what you’re saying, **Mr. Moto**. [Sen. Arlen Specter Planning Trip to Syria Despite Bush Objections](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236820,00.html) LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/19 "2007-04-04T19:34:32Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] She’s certainly within her rights to go. I recall such trips by Jim Wright, Newt Gingrich and Denny Hastert when each was Speaker - never to as controversial a semi-enemy as Syria, though. If she’s made to look like Assad’s patsy, it could hurt her and the House Dems politically. Hope some good comes of the trip, but I have my doubts. [/QUOTE] Is she, though? Are members of Congress exempt from the Logan Act? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565/20 "2007-04-04T19:46:33Z")
I doubt they are, since the Logan in question was a prominent politician of his time who was trying to negotiate an end to the Quasi War. However, history has shown that particular law to be pretty ineffective in preventing this sort of thing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pelosis-trip-to-syria/398565.md?page=2)