# Penalties for murder - order versus pulling the trigger **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penalties-for-murder-order-versus-pulling-the-trigger/730380 "2015-09-08T21:36:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penalties-for-murder-order-versus-pulling-the-trigger/730380/1 "2015-09-08T21:36:11Z")
We were watching a documentary on Whitey Bulger the other day, and for some reason I got to wondering: If you commit murder by pulling the trigger yourself, you’re presumably up for any and all penalties for First Degree Murder, up to and including the death penalty. If you “merely” _order_ the murder, however, are you subject to the same penalities? Lesser? Worse? If you hire a hitman (as opposed to giving one of your on-staff goons the assignment), same question. In either of these scenarios, would the goon / hitman be subject to any different penalties than if he’d acted on his own behalf? It’s largely an academic question for Whitey; given his age and health, a 5 year sentence is as good as a life sentence. I thought about putting this in IMHO, but figured that there’s a fair chance that there’s a factual answer as to whether the boss is up for the same penalties as his hirelings. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penalties-for-murder-order-versus-pulling-the-trigger/730380/2 "2015-09-08T21:45:27Z")
I think in most cases if you order a murder you can be convicted of murder and get the same penalties. A guy in NJ hired a hitman to kill his wife. The guy who pulled the trigger was found not guilty but the husband was convicted. That was an odd case. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penalties-for-murder-order-versus-pulling-the-trigger/730380/3 "2015-09-08T22:23:58Z")
Charles Manson was convicted of murder and sentenced to death, even though he never directly killed anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penalties-for-murder-order-versus-pulling-the-trigger/730380/4 "2015-09-08T22:27:51Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > I thought about putting this in IMHO, but figured that there’s a fair chance that there’s a factual answer as to whether the boss is up for the same penalties as his hirelings. Yes. See [accessory before the fact](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accessory_before_the_fact). ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penalties-for-murder-order-versus-pulling-the-trigger/730380/5 "2015-09-08T22:28:47Z")
A lot of mafia guys were convicted of murder just for giving an order. Guys like John Gotti may have pulled the trigger when they were young but not after they were running a family. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penalties-for-murder-order-versus-pulling-the-trigger/730380/6 "2015-09-08T22:34:03Z")
Isn’t conspiracy a thing in the USA? Over here, if you get together with one or more people and plot/plan a murder, then you are all equally guilty. The prosecution doesn’t actually need to prove who dun it. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penalties-for-murder-order-versus-pulling-the-trigger/730380/7 "2015-09-09T18:02:38Z")
From the [California Penal Code](http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=30-33): > [@](#): > > 1. All persons concerned in the commission of a crime, whether it > be felony or misdemeanor, and whether they directly commit the act > constituting the offense, or aid and abet in its commission, or, not > being present, have advised and encouraged its commission, and all > persons counseling, advising, or encouraging children under the age > of fourteen years, or persons who are mentally incapacitated, to > commit any crime, or who, by fraud, contrivance, or force, occasion > the drunkenness of another for the purpose of causing him to commit > any crime, or who, by threats, menaces, command, or coercion, compel > another to commit any crime, are principals in any crime so > committed. I’m sure that the other 49 states have similar laws. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penalties-for-murder-order-versus-pulling-the-trigger/730380/8 "2015-09-09T20:45:01Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Isn’t conspiracy a thing in the USA? Over here, if you get together with one or more people and plot/plan a murder, then you are all equally guilty. The prosecution doesn’t actually need to prove who dun it. IIRC with plea bargaining and turning states’ evidence, I recall reading quite a few cases where the guy who made the deal was the psycho who pulled the trigger. He would get say, a 30 year sentence to testify against the accomplices who had only signed up for, say, armed robbery, who would then get full weight of the law. I recall this being the case with someone who was on death row, put there by the evidence of the triggerman. Unless someone confesses (or they are particularly stupid) it would be difficult to get strong evidence proving someone ordered the hit.