# Pence harangued by cast of Hamilton **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436 "2016-11-19T16:46:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/221 "2016-11-21T19:23:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I agree it’s rude, but sometimes being rude is okay or even good. I think this is an example of one of those times in which being rude is okay. I would say that murdering someone is the ultimate form of rudeness. I’ve heard that Trump is going to murder all brown people in the country. I guess you are ok with this. I for one am against murder. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/222 "2016-11-21T19:26:06Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I would say that murdering someone is the ultimate form of rudeness. I’ve heard that Trump is going to murder all brown people in the country. I guess you are ok with this. I for one am against murder. You’re wrong because purple wombat bicycle pumpkin. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/223 "2016-11-21T19:33:23Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > I would say that murdering someone is the ultimate form of rudeness. I’ve heard that Trump is going to murder all brown people in the country. I guess you are ok with this. I for one am against murder. What if you use the magic word? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/224 "2016-11-21T19:35:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There are typically protesters present at every political rally during the campaign. But I’m not seeing how that relates to this incident anyway. > Although I thought it was rude, I wouldn’t say it was “wrong”. As noted, I said they had every right to do what they did. But I’m at a loss as to how one person calls another person a bigot in a respectful manner, in public. > > And just to note, there is also nothing wrong with doing something in order to feel better about oneself. I’m certain that cast member did feel better. I’m just wondering if his goal was to accomplish more than that. If it was, I doubt he was successful. As anyone who read the story, or more than just the last page of this thread knows, it wasn’t just _his_ goal. It was the goal of the play’s creator, director, producer, and cast members to draft this statement and have it heard by Pence. He was not speaking only for himself and didn’t appoint himself to make personal comments just on his own behalf, although I’m sure he eagerly volunteered to deliver the message. It was the effort of everyone involved with the play. And I surely did not read any accusations of bigotry in the statement. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/225 "2016-11-21T19:47:47Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Politicians of all stripes have to deal with people hating them, booing them, and even recognizing that their lives will be threatened by crackpots. This is part of the job. > > I think Pence dealt with this in a classy way: he was on his way out, stopped to listen to the statement, and continued on. If it hadn’t been for his clown of a boss who decided to take to Twitter about it, there would be no controversy here, just a minor news item. I haven’t seen Pence calling for an apology, has he? > > Again, this was unusual but in terms of the controversy of the statement, much less offensive than the feedback that politicians inevitably get when they are out in the public. Pence, as much as I disagree with him, has almost certainly been through much, much worse, and dealt with it like a reasonable person ought to. That should be the end of the story. +1 This was a little rude, in the sense that Pence was called out when he clearly just wanted to be an audience member. But it goes with the territory. The statement itself was well-written and contained nothing really objectionable. Pence’s response was perfectly acceptable. Trump’s response was consistent with Trump – that is, bombastic and ill-reasoned. Finally, I should point out that during Bush 43’s term in office, Avenue Q’s closing number (“For Now”) which lists a bunch of things that are unpleasant but must be endured for now, and will go away eventually, included “George Bush,” on the list. During Galinda’s song “Popular,” from Wicked, the singer cynically explains the tricks to being popular, noting that “…celebrated heads of state, especially ‘Great Communicators’ - did they have brains or knowledge? - don’t make me laugh! They were _popular_! Please! It’s all about popular.” (The ‘Great Communicator’ was a reference to Ronald Reagan). Lesson: New York theatre leans more liberal than the Straight Dope. Conservatives need to understand that a night on Broadway or at the opera is not a trip into politically friendly territory. More’s the pity. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/226 "2016-11-21T20:33:26Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > So, who was playing frat boy pranks, again, and when did the performers stop the play and walk off stage? I understand neither of those things occurred. I thought McGivers hypothetical about staging cellphones ringing to stop the play deserved an equal strawman response. That, and my praise and appreciation does go out to Channing, who DOES have an important yet thankless job. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/227 "2016-11-21T20:38:56Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Especially since HIV awareness is apparently such a huge part of Hamilton’s thing. Pence once floated a bill that would only provide AIDS funding to programs that taught homosexuality is immoral. That is fucking sick. I long for the day we are more offended by things like that than some mildly worded political statement by a notoriously political playwrite. The actor who made the speech is HIV positive. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/228 "2016-11-21T20:51:33Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > No one understands his posts. Its basically always nonsensical rambling. This isn’t called for in here. Take it elsewhere, if you must. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/229 "2016-11-21T21:15:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What if you use the magic word? Then the duck comes down and gives you $100. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/230 "2016-11-21T21:16:20Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I’ve never been on stage. But I’m not using my “theatrical career” as an arguing point. (Not that there’s anything _wrong_ with Dinner Theater.) I’ve done more than “Dinner Theatre”. Not that it’s any of your business. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/231 "2016-11-21T21:19:23Z")
I think it’s very telling that even when the story is about a production he’s not even in, Trump still has to have the brightest spotlight. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/232 "2016-11-21T21:24:52Z")
The sniping in here is getting kind of ridiculous. I agree with Oakminster, his theater experience is irrelevant to the discussion. Under normal circumstances, it’d be uncalled for to address a member of the audience from the stage. Imagine if these things had happened: “I see in the audience the owner of Viatello’s Pizzeria. Last time I was there, the owner yelled at me for not paying my bill, but I had actually paid it. Mr. Viatello, I hope you’ll treat customers better in the future.” “I see in the audience a man with a blue striped tie and a long white beard. That man cut me off in traffic this past weekend, and when I honked, he flipped me off. Sir, I do hope you’ll drive more considerately.” “We have been joined tonight by Ms. Lawrence, theater critic for the Daily News. She gave my last show a scathing review that was totally unwarranted. Ms. Lawrence, we in the theater community hope you’ll judge us with more impartiality.” All of those would be inappropriate. But Pence? Pence is one of the most powerful people in the world, and his actions are of significance to our whole species. He’s allied himself with someone unprecedented in American politics (with the possible exception of Andrew Jackson–except that Jackson lacked nuclear codes). While the cast’s actions might be impolite, they’re totally called for: things are too serious to mess around with at this point. Speaking truth to power, in a respectful way, is what we all oughtta be doing now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/233 "2016-11-21T22:21:22Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > As anyone who read the story, or more than just the last page of this thread knows, it wasn’t just _his_ goal. It was the goal of the play’s creator, director, producer, and cast members to draft this statement and have it heard by Pence. He was not speaking only for himself and didn’t appoint himself to make personal comments just on his own behalf, although I’m sure he eagerly volunteered to deliver the message. It was the effort of everyone involved with the play. Yes, I know it was not him alone. If you feel it’s necessary, change “him” to “they” in my post. > [@](#): > > And I surely did not read any accusations of bigotry in the statement. Really? When he said that the cast was anxious that Pence’s administration wouldn’t protect them, was that because he thought the administration was going to be lazy, underfunded or understaffed? What would be the cause of Pence’s administration’s failure to protect them? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/234 "2016-11-21T22:33:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, I know it was not him alone. If you feel it’s necessary, change “him” to “they” in my post. > > Really? When he said that the cast was anxious that Pence’s administration wouldn’t protect them, was that because he thought the administration was going to be lazy, underfunded or understaffed? What would be the cause of Pence’s administration’s failure to protect them? The fact that Pence believes that some people don’t deserve protection. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/235 "2016-11-21T22:49:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The sniping in here is getting kind of ridiculous. In my own defense, I thought we were in the Pit until **Eyebrows of Doom** got modded. It seems that’s where all Trump-related threads end up. Apologies if I contributed here in an inflammatory way. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/236 "2016-11-21T23:12:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Really? When he said that the cast was anxious that Pence’s administration wouldn’t protect them, was that because he thought the administration was going to be lazy, underfunded or understaffed? What would be the cause of Pence’s administration’s failure to protect them? If an NRA member told Hillary Clinton that he is concerned she will not protect his Second Amendment rights, I would not say that he called her a gun-grabber. I’d say he raised his consensus rather respectfully. I just plain disagree with your conclusion that he speech effectively called him a racist. The text says otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/237 "2016-11-21T23:30:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Really? When he said that the cast was anxious that Pence’s administration wouldn’t protect them, was that because he thought the administration was going to be lazy, underfunded or understaffed? What would be the cause of Pence’s administration’s failure to protect them? There’s a million possible reasons – he doesn’t think the government should protect certain groups; he doesn’t think those groups are under threat; they disagree on how they should be protected; etc. That’s not an accusation of bigotry any more than “I’m worried that you won’t help small businesses” is an accusation of communism. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/238 "2016-11-22T00:17:20Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > They could have written a letter and cc’d the media. Doubt it would be read, or printed in light of all the other criticism being aired all over the media. Instead, they chose to use the power of their own platform. **Seems to have been effective/successful because we’re talking about it now**. > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > The “harangue” was written by creative people wishing to express themselves. They did. > > Giving Trump a chance to prove, once again, that he’s a whiny fool. And for Pence to reveal that he’s got a spark of decency in him. (Maybe just the one, but it’s better than nothing.) Exactly. In a way their goal it’s the same as the President-elect’s usual to-do list for every day: “get them talking about what I said”. He of all people should understand. And Pence took his opportunity to shine. Because sometimes you want a professional politician who will \*not \*throw a tantrum because someone calls him out on something 'cause that is in the bloody job description. The \*mutually perfectly civil \*statements of both the company \*and \*Pence is how things hould normally go, and it would have been over and done with by Sunday. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s a million possible reasons – he doesn’t think the government should protect certain groups; he doesn’t think those groups are under threat; they disagree on how they should be protected; etc. That’s not an accusation of bigotry any more than “I’m worried that you won’t help small businesses” is an accusation of communism. Right, well put. They may worry that priorities will be elsewhere, that effort will be diluted or directed to other issues the administration may find more pressing, that “downticket” officials and jurisdictions and the private sector may act with less federal oversight or they and the individuals will be left to “wing it” under a philosophy of laissez faire. Nothing of what was expressed conveys “bigotry” as the \*necessary \*basis for it. …At the most desperate extreme, it could be just a plea to get some sort of gesture or expression of reassurance, damnit. Would be so easy… ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/239 "2016-11-22T00:29:48Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Then the duck comes down and gives you $100. I give up. Vhy-a duck? Vhy-a no chicken? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/240 "2016-11-22T00:34:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, I know it was not him alone. If you feel it’s necessary, change “him” to “they” in my post. > > Really? When he said that the cast was anxious that Pence’s administration wouldn’t protect them, was that because he thought the administration was going to be lazy, underfunded or understaffed? What would be the cause of Pence’s administration’s failure to protect them? I see I don’t need to reply to you. Everyone else’s words were well-said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436.md?page=13)