# Pence harangued by cast of Hamilton **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436 "2016-11-19T16:46:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/161 "2016-11-21T02:31:29Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I knew someone who went to see Penn and Teller’s magic show in Vegas and they spent half the time talking politics. Actually, that was Penn. Teller doesn’t talk. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/162 "2016-11-21T02:39:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m baffled that you think he wasn’t offended. You’re confused by his manners. > > Well bless you’re heart. You think it’s rude to boo someone but not to publicly chastise them. If you mean they shushed the booers, explicitly said “This is a house of love,” addressed Pence as “sir” and thanked Pence for his attendance twice, then sure. What uncouth ruffians! Give me a break. With so many people boiling over these days I’d say they set a higher standard for public discourse than most people bother. If people get their panties in a twist over such a mild form of confrontation, I question whether it’s only liberals in need of safe spaces. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/163 "2016-11-21T02:40:48Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > If you mean they shushed the booers, explicitly said “This is a house of love,” addressed Pence as “sir” and thanked Pence for his attendance twice, then sure. What uncouth ruffians! Give me a break. With so many people boiling over these days I’d say they set a higher standard for public discourse than most people bother. If people get their panties in a twist over such a mild form of confrontation, I question whether it’s only liberals in need of safe spaces. Trump did request “safe places”. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/164 "2016-11-21T02:45:16Z")
The irony was not lost on me. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/165 "2016-11-21T02:57:45Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I knew someone who went to see Penn and Teller’s magic show in Vegas and they spent half the time talking politics. > [@running\_coach](#): > > Actually, that was Penn. Teller doesn’t talk. That’s why it was only half! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/166 "2016-11-21T03:20:34Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Actually, that was Penn. Teller doesn’t talk. Yeah. Teller spent half the time gesturing politics. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/167 "2016-11-21T03:27:29Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > That’s why it was only half! “Overtly political entertainers say political things at their entertainment event.” It would be great if we could stop being surprised. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/168 "2016-11-21T03:58:28Z")
Pence: ‘I wasn’t offended’ by message of ‘Hamilton’ cast > **[Pence: 'I wasn't offended' by message of 'Hamilton' cast | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/20/politics/mike-pence-hamilton-message-trump/)** > > Vice President-elect Mike Pence said the boos he faced at the Broadway production of "Hamilton" were "what freedom sounds like." ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/169 "2016-11-21T04:03:05Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Pence: ‘I wasn’t offended’ by message of ‘Hamilton’ cast > > [http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/20/politics/mike-pence-hamilton-message-trump/](http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/20/politics/mike-pence-hamilton-message-trump/) He _says_ he wasn’t offended. I don’t believe him, he also thinks Trump is Presidential material. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/170 "2016-11-21T04:06:34Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > “Overtly political entertainers say political things at their entertainment event.” It would be great if we could stop being surprised. Like all those people taken unawares at a [Mark Russell concert](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba0-RH7qYKQ). ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/171 "2016-11-21T04:07:59Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Please highlight the part of the speech that you think was disrespectful. You did actually read what was said, yes? Even better, I saw the video! I don’t like a performer calling out an audience member. The whole thing was kind of condescending. That all said, Trump is super petty demanding an apology. Just move on with your life already. He’s going to be really tired of asking for apologies every time he’s aggrieved. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/172 "2016-11-21T04:12:10Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > He _says_ he wasn’t offended. I don’t believe him, he also thinks Trump is Presidential material. Ha! Point. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/173 "2016-11-21T04:50:36Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Actor here. Haven’t read the rest of the thread. > > I find this incident hideously rude, inappropriate, and unprofessional. Audience members are guests, and are to be treated respectfully. One does not call them out by name and ambush them with a political statement like the cast did. Content is irrelevant. Pence did not consent to being a part of the show. He was there as a private citizen. He should not have been singled out for a lecture. > > The cast is perfectly free to express their ideas in any appropriate forum. A curtain speech is not an appropriate forum. The cast of Hamilton makes curtain speeches _all the time_. This was not the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/174 "2016-11-21T04:55:32Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Actor here. Haven’t read the rest of the thread. > > I find this incident hideously rude, inappropriate, and unprofessional. Audience members are guests, and are to be treated respectfully. One does not call them out by name and ambush them with a political statement like the cast did. Content is irrelevant. Pence did not consent to being a part of the show. He was there as a private citizen. He should not have been singled out for a lecture. > > The cast is perfectly free to express their ideas in any appropriate forum. A curtain speech is not an appropriate forum. The statement was written by the play’s creator. It was, for all intents and purposes, _part of the script_. An actor’s job is to read the lines he’s given, innit? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/175 "2016-11-21T05:17:00Z")
Art is not supposed to be comfortable. It’s supposed to challenge the viewer and make his brain work. Pence was gracious enough to say it didn’t bother him, whereas our new president responded like the petulant child that he is. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/176 "2016-11-21T05:19:49Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Even better, I saw the video! I don’t like a performer calling out an audience member. The whole thing was kind of condescending. Well, he’s not just an audience member. He’s a homophobic prick who just got elected VP, and I bet he didn’t get his tickets (and his secret service’s tickets) in advance like normal people. I wonder how much extra space, and other people’s time he took up? He can damn well listen to what they have to say. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/177 "2016-11-21T05:29:47Z")
Especially since HIV awareness is apparently such a huge part of Hamilton’s thing. Pence once floated a bill that would only provide AIDS funding to programs that taught homosexuality is immoral. That is fucking sick. I long for the day we are more offended by things like that than some mildly worded political statement by a notoriously political playwrite. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/178 "2016-11-21T07:20:23Z")
I wonder who this first amendment supporter voted for: Social media accounts say an audience member began loudly ranting after actors playing Alexander Hamilton and the Marquis de Lafayette sang “Immigrants — we get the job done!” — a lyric that always draws cheers. “He started raising his voice and throwing up middle fingers at anyone who looked at him, including me and my best friend,” audience member Ken Keacher told [pajiba.com](http://pajiba.com). Kate Hoyt, who was with Keacher, told the site, “He was saying things like, ‘We won. Trump is president. Get over it.’ At some point Ken leaned into the aisle to try and tell him to leave and the guy then put up both his fists and said **‘Let’s go, Democrats. I’ll kill you all.’** ” [Disruption in Chicago 'Hamilton' audience ends in man's arrest - Chicago Sun-Times](http://chicago.suntimes.com/entertainment/disruptive-trump-fan-removed-from-chicago-hamilton-audience/) ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/179 "2016-11-21T08:21:39Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > The cast of Hamilton makes curtain speeches _all the time_. This was not the first time. Do they call out audience members by name for a political lecture _all the time_? Because that is what I am objecting to. I don’t care if they make a curtain speech that doesn’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436/180 "2016-11-21T08:28:19Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Art is not supposed to be comfortable. It’s supposed to challenge the viewer and make his brain work. Pence was gracious enough to say it didn’t bother him, whereas our new president responded like the petulant child that he is. That’s a very different argument that does not apply to a curtain speech. It is perfectly legitimate to make a political statement with art. Write a play called “Trump Sucks” or “Hillary Sucks” and perform it. Stage a production of “The Crucible”–which I very much want to do in the near future–perfectly fine. Take a photograph of a crucifix immersed in urine–it’s tacky and offensive to most sane people, but still fine. The difference is you let the performance speak for itself, and let the audience take from it what they will. You don’t call out individual audience members to ambush them with a political lecture when they have not consented to be part of the show. That’s rude and unprofessional. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pence-harangued-by-cast-of-hamilton/772436.md?page=10)