# Pending fisheries collapse? - I pit those who don't see this as a problem **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2006, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960 "2006-11-03T12:34:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/1 "2006-11-03T12:34:33Z")
[New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/02/science/03fishcnd.html?_r=1&bl&ex=1162616400&en=8e7132392e14b91f&ei=5087%0A&oref=slogin) [Scientific American](http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=AAFCC579-E7F2-99DF-33CF444CDD8F7AAF) I know you’re out there, maybe not so many on these boards, but you’re out there. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/2 "2006-11-03T13:26:21Z")
We’re too busy celebrating the impending demise of anchovies on pizza. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/3 "2006-11-03T14:07:02Z")
**ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** : I could not agree more. We desperately need to not only curtail fishing to sustainable levels but also actively use Navy/Coast Guard Forces to guard against foreign violations of our fisheries. Of course, the First step is to work out a joint protection act with Canada that satisfies both equal partners. This is one of a dozen environmental problems that should not be continually ignored by the powers that be. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/4 "2006-11-03T14:29:03Z")
I was reading a disturbing article yesterday on the BBC website. Like Newfoundland 14 years ago, the North Sea cod population is on the verge of collapse. What researchers found was that when cod stocks are threatened, the remaining cod tend to congregate together. It gives the false impression that there are still lots of them around. In 1992, just before the Newfoundland collapse they had their largest catch of cod on record. ---
**Author:** ![jebert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@jebert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jebert)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/5 "2006-11-03T19:19:30Z")
“Hey! Fishing has been our way of life for generations in these parts\*. And there are still plenty of fish out there. Just look at the haul from my last trip.” \*State of Denial ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/6 "2006-11-03T19:23:52Z")
Well, I do my part by pretty much refusing to eat seafood…cause it’s nasty. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/7 "2006-11-03T19:26:22Z")
Actually, I’m one of those who you are pitting. I’m very skeptical of the assumptions being made by the study when they refer to the extrapolated trend. To paraphrase someone I saw on another board, “If my weight gain trend continues, when I’m 65 I’ll weigh 2 tons!” Yes, overfishing is a serious problem, and I am a staunch dyed-in-the-hemp environmentalist, but the claims that this study is making seem more like an abuse of statistical methods, instead of an abuse of the oceans. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/8 "2006-11-03T19:33:41Z")
[QUOTE=bouv] Well, I do my part by pretty much refusing to eat seafood…cause it’s nasty. [/QUOTE] The fish thank you. Expect many to take up residence in your home, hiding from me. I eat lots of seafood…cause it’s yummy. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/9 "2006-11-03T19:41:37Z")
It’s a problem, certainly, but not the most important environmental problem we face by a long shot. It seems that the worst thing that will happen from depleted fisheries is the extinction of a few species of fish and the disruption of local economies dedicated to fishing. Food supplies in general are not threatened, and even if certain fish are all killed in the wild (which I think is unlikely. Most of them will just fall below the point where it’s economical to fish for them), many of them are kept around in aquaria, and can be reintroduced in the future, once we get some fishing protection mechanism in place. Compare the impact of depleted fisheries to global climate change, aquifer depletion, or persistent environmental pollutants, all of which can potentially seriously impact the global food supply and render areas largely uninhabitable. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/10 "2006-11-03T19:50:21Z")
[QUOTE=GargoyleWB] Yes, overfishing is a serious problem… [/QUOTE] That pretty much absolves you from my ire. 😉 It was indeed a minimalist drive-by pitting OP hastily thrown out in the last few minutes at a hotspot before running to catch a train. My use of the “?” was intended to communicate that I was somewhate dubious about the extrapolated date. There’s plenty included in the articles that I interperet as dire that was not extrapolated. > [@](#): > > According to an analysis of 64 large marine ecosystems, which provide 83 percent of the world’s seafood catch, global fishing yields have declined by 10.6 million metric tons since that year. [1994] > [@](#): > > In addition to data from the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization stretching back to 1950, the researchers examined 32 controlled experiments in various marine ecosystems, observations from 48 marine protected areas, and historical data on 12 coastal fisheries for the last 1,000 years. The latter study shows that among commercially important species alone, 91 percent have seen their abundance halved, 38 percent have nearly disappeared and 7 percent have gone extinct with most of this reduction happening since 1800. > [@](#): > > Although the trend is grim, the study of protected areas offers some hope that marine ecosystems can rebound, according to the paper presenting the analysis in the November 3 issue of Science. The 48 studied showed an overall increase of 23 percent in species diversity and a fourfold increase in available catch. “It’s not a miracle. It’s something that is do-able, it’s just something that requires a big chunk of political will to do it,” Worm observes. “We have a 1,000-, probably 10,000-year habit of taking the oceans for granted and moving from one species to the next, or replacing it with a technological fix like aquaculture. To me, the major roadblock is we have to change our perception of what the ocean is.” I just don’t have much faith in the timely appearance of a “big chunk of political will” or a timely paradigm shift of the general public when it comes to the world’s oceans. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/11 "2006-11-03T20:30:46Z")
Well, we might as well eat 'em all before they die from the effects of Global Warming on ocean temperatures. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/12 "2006-11-03T20:33:58Z")
So I should sell my stock in Long John Silver’s? ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/13 "2006-11-03T21:52:52Z")
I think it is the ocean ecosystem, not fisheries, that is in danger of collapsing. Not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/14 "2006-11-03T22:50:17Z")
I read the story as well-I see aquaculture as the solution. We should be able to raise fish, just like cattle. Are there any big players in the business? ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/15 "2006-11-04T02:21:54Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] We should be able to raise fish, just like cattle [/QUOTE] Ironically, _those_ are called _fisheries_. Pssst. Someone. Anyone. Is it just me? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/16 "2006-11-04T02:29:01Z")
From [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com)… > [@](#): > > fish‧er‧y  /ˈfɪʃəri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fish-uh-ree] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation > –noun, plural -er‧ies. > > 1. a place where fish are bred; fish hatchery. > **2. a place where fish or shellfish are caught.** > > 2. the occupation or industry of catching, processing, or selling fish or shellfish. > > 3. Law. the right to fish in certain waters or at certain times. > [Origin: 1520–30; fish + ery] > [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) Unabridged (v 1.0.1) > Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. > American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source > fish·er·y (fsh-r) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of “fishery” [P] > n. pl. fish·er·ies > > 4. The industry or occupation devoted to the catching, processing, or selling of fish, shellfish, or other aquatic animals. > **2. A place where fish or other aquatic animals are caught.** > > 5. A fishing business. > > 6. A hatchery for fish. > > 7. The legal right to fish in specified waters or areas. Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/17 "2006-11-04T02:38:08Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I see aquaculture as the solution. We should be able to raise fish, just like cattle. Are there any big players in the business? Aquaculture is already extremely big in the business. One third of all the fish and seafood consumed worldwide are farmed, i.e., produced by aquaculture. One trouble with many forms of aquaculture, as in the cases of shrimp and salmon farming, is that the frenzy to provide a cheaper and more abundant product is having some very negative effects on the environment. The intensively farmed critters, being kept in close quarters in coastal or freshwater ponds that rapidly accumulate waste, are vulnerable to large-scale infections with bacteria and viruses. So lots of aquafarmers douse them with antibiotics, pesticides, and other chemicals that aren’t good for the surrounding wildlife or the people who eat the fish. Unfortunately, aquaculture isn’t some miracle cure that’s just waiting for some clever entrepreneurs to implement it to rescue us from the consequences of our overfishing. Aquaculture is already being practiced on a large scale, and although it does produce a lot of fish, not only has it not eliminated the dangerous stress on wild fish stocks, it’s causing some additional problems of its own via pollution and habitat destruction. ---
**Author:** ![Chotii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Chotii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chotii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/18 "2006-11-04T04:29:33Z")
When the United States was just a scattered set of towns, not even colonies yet, ships from France and other places in Europe used to come fish the Atlantic near the shores of North America. Sometimes the fish were so thick that ships literally could not pass through them, and were impeded. They scooped fish out by the tons, salted them down, and took them back to Europe. Of course it’s not like that now. I can’t imagine it ever will be, again. I’m not sure what’s to be done about it, unfortunately. You can’t tell every fisherman in the world “You can’t fish anymore, I’m sorry if your family will starve, if you can’t find another job because fishing is all you know, if you can’t even sell your family fishing boat because there’s no market for fishing boats.” In theory, if you did that…in a hundred years, or maybe even fifty, you could have a very great recovery of _many_ if not most species. But it can’t happen. What if it were made illegal to fish for…fish for fertilizer? That would hurt a subset of commercial fishermen, but by no means most of them. Would that help a little? What percentage of fish sent to grocery stores is eventually discarded due to non-purchase and non-consumption? What if the price of fish were raised by that percentage, and that many fewer fish caught, killed? ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/19 "2006-11-04T11:57:33Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] From [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com)… [/QUOTE] Thanks, that makes a bit more sense. Definition one is exactly what I was referring to. Definition two makes a little more sense in your OP, though I would still stress that the article is about the _entire ecosystem_ not just the areas where fish are caught. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960/20 "2006-11-04T19:02:54Z")
Not all of the experts agree with that study’s findings: > [@](#): > > But other scientists question that forecast. > > “It’s just mind-boggling stupid,” said Ray Hilborn, a University of Washington professor of aquatic and fishery sciences. > > “I’m worried about some areas of the world — like Africa — but other areas of the world have figured out how to do effective fishery management.” > **[The Seattle Times | Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment,...](https://www.seattletimes.com)** > > Local news, sports, business, politics, entertainment, travel, restaurants and opinion for Seattle and the Pacific Northwest. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pending-fisheries-collapse-i-pit-those-who-dont-see-this-as-a-problem/378960.md?page=2)