# "Penii" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717 "2006-10-08T15:32:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rashaverak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a5b964/32.png) [@Rashaverak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashaverak)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/41 "2006-10-08T20:45:46Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] Como talle vu, Q.E.D.? [/QUOTE] You’re just _nasty_ ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/42 "2006-10-08T20:48:03Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Since we’re on the subject of pet peeves: I’m an alumni of that school. [/QUOTE] Nuh uh. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/43 "2006-10-08T21:22:58Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] Como talle vu, Q.E.D.? [/QUOTE] We await with bated breath **Q.E.D.**'s [Damascene](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=381619) conversion from persecuting the English language. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/44 "2006-10-09T00:59:01Z")
[QUOTE=Scissorjack] This was covered recently - and somewhat heatedly - in Great Debates: link [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=384079) “Octopi” is still wrong. [/QUOTE] And yet, after reading that I’m almost willing to accept _penii_, just the hypthetical \*_peni-, -us, -i_ root to play with. Sort of as the backwards inverse of “genius”, maybe. “You, sir, are a penius!” “This discussion is sheer penius” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/45 "2006-10-09T02:03:39Z")
A few interesting points below for [y’all](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/y'all). 1. _Octopus_ is a Latin word. Latin, like every other language on the planet, sometimes got its words from other languages. And there are two acceptable plurals for it. See [link](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/octopus). 2. The singular of _alumni_ is _alumnus_. Those are for the masculine. The feminine singular and plural are: _alumna_ and _alumnae_. See [link](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/alumnus). 3. There are two acceptable plurals for _penis_: _penises_ and _penes_. See [link](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/penis). ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/46 "2006-10-09T02:08:27Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] A1. _Octopus_ is a Latin word. [/QUOTE] That’s certainly news to me. It doesn’t appear in Lewis & Short. Care to provide me with a cite? ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/47 "2006-10-09T02:11:41Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] A few interesting points below for [y’all](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/y'all). 1. _Octopus_ is a Latin word. Latin, like every other language on the planet, sometimes got its words from other languages. And there are two acceptable plurals for it. See [link](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/octopus). [/QUOTE] Your cite actually says it is Greek, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/48 "2006-10-09T02:16:08Z")
I’ll go back on my statement a smidge - I’m sure it was Latinized in the Renaissance in biological texts. That doesn’t actually change anything - ‘octopus’ would not have been pluralized in those texts as ‘octopi’ but instead ‘octopodes’, as I said. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/49 "2006-10-09T02:17:25Z")
My favourite is _omnibi_, the plural of _omnibus_. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/50 "2006-10-09T02:19:10Z")
And, because I haven’t posted enough in this thread yet (can you blame me? How often do pit threads come up which involve both Latin AND Greek?), I found this as one of the first hits on a google search of ‘octopus’ and ‘Latin’. [Bibliophage’s Staff Report on the topic](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mplurals.html) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/51 "2006-10-09T04:25:23Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] I guess it wasn’t as funny as I thought it would be… [/QUOTE] Of course it was. I was yanking your chain right back atcha. You big goof, you. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/52 "2006-10-09T06:47:09Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Of course it was. I was yanking your chain right back atcha. You big goof, you. [/QUOTE] :smack: Well, thanks for the reassurance, anyway. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/53 "2006-10-09T06:50:41Z")
[QUOTE=rayh] Your cite actually says it is Greek, by the way. [/QUOTE] My cite, which you asked me to provide you after I already had, btw, says that it came into English via New Latin from Greek. Thus, it’s (a) a Greek word, (b) a Latin word, and (c) an English word. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/54 "2006-10-09T06:52:23Z")
Oops. That Helen asked me to provide. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/55 "2006-10-09T07:00:40Z")
[QUOTE=Helen’s Eidolon] I’ll go back on my statement a smidge - I’m sure it was Latinized in the Renaissance in biological texts. That doesn’t actually change anything - ‘octopus’ would not have been pluralized in those texts as ‘octopi’ but instead ‘octopodes’, as I said. [/QUOTE] And to back this up, I refer everyone to [AskOxford](http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/plurals) > [@](#): > > Although it is often supposed that octopi is the ‘correct’ plural of octopus, and it has been in use for longer than the usual Anglicized plural octopuses, it in fact originates as an error. Octopus is not a simple Latin word of the second declension, but a Latinized form of the Greek word oktopous, and its ‘correct’ plural would logically be octopodes. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/56 "2006-10-09T08:28:53Z")
When come back, bring octopi. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/57 "2006-10-09T13:22:13Z")
Yes, I acknowledged that, Monty. That doesn’t mean that it was pluralized, even in Latin, as ‘octopi’. I’m working on finding some ‘New Latin’ instances. In the meanwhile, the OED: "Plural octopuses, octopi, (rare) octopodes Brit. /ktpdiz/, /ktpdiz/, U.S. /ktopdiz/, /ktpdiz/. [\< scientific Latin octopus (1758 or earlier in Linnaeus) \< ancient Greek -, (also -, ) eight-footed, an eight-footed creature \< - OCTO- + -, foot (see -POD). The plural form octopodes reflects the Greek plural; cf. OCTOPOD n. The more frequent plural form octopi arises from apprehension of the final -us of the word as the grammatical ending of Latin second declension nouns; this apprehension is also reflected in compounds in octop-: see e.g. OCTOPEAN a., OCTOPIC a., OCTOPINE a., etc.] " ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/58 "2006-10-09T13:29:00Z")
Sorry, forgot to mention this. Since, according the to OED, the first instance of ‘octopus’ in Latin is as late as 1758, they could well have started the error upon its first adoption into Latin, although I still doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/59 "2006-10-09T13:50:04Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] When come back, bring octopi. [/QUOTE] Threads like this one make me want to stick with Pulpo a la Gallega… ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717/60 "2006-10-09T16:00:39Z")
My point is that the word itself came into English from Latin, one of the plural endings came into English from Latin, and that although in Latin that’s the wrong plural ending, it’s one of the accepted–and thus correct–pluralizations in English for the word. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penii/375717.md?page=4)