# Penile Lengthening Column

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [October 20, 2000, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716 "2000-10-20T22:33:34Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 15

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**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/281 "2000-11-02T00:43:14Z")

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Oh, and before I forget, Hail Zotar.

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**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/282 "2000-11-02T00:50:25Z")

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Jack said to David B:

> [@](#):
>
> If you have an argument with me, we are going to come to a very rational meeting of the minds. And, that will result in a whole lot of the more feeble-minded persons in this forum being at your throat

LMAO,D&R!

This Mor…er…idi…er…luna…guy couldn’t rationaly argue that the sky is blue.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Jack\_Dean\_Tyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@Jack\_Dean\_Tyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Dean_Tyler)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/283 "2000-11-02T00:52:14Z")

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CheapBastid,  
\> I do understand that the range in degree of mutilation is vast in the FGM category, but in the case where the clitoral hood is removed it is not only analogous but pretty equivalent to male circumcision.\<

```
Actually, the range of genital mutilations between males and females is roughly the same. For females it goes from kindest to most cruel: Incision, Circumcision, Excision, and Infibulation. For males it goes from kindest t most cruel: Incision, Circumcision, Subincision, and Stripping. They are analogous except that in all cases the glans of the penis does remain and it is not true that the clitoris remains for all FGM.
```

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**Author:** ![absoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@absoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/absoul)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/284 "2000-11-02T00:57:28Z")

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edwino  
\> The foreskin is intensely studied, if because it is the source of many lab fibroblast cultures.\<

JDT  
It hasn’t been studied at all

Nope, not even by you Jack. So, please stop making these broad generaliztions about how much feeling is lost if one is circumsised.

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**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/285 "2000-11-02T01:38:23Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jack Dean Tyler \*  
> \*\*Zette,  
> \> Frankly, I’d take my husband- the best giver of oral sex on the planet-over penis play, (cut or uncut) ANY day of the week. \<  
> That’s only because you admittedly don’t know any better. An intact man who knows how to use his penis will get your clitoris going much better than any tongue. Further, it’s no so Twilight Zonish having normal sex since you can actually see someone’s face, too.
> 
> \*\*

You are completely correct, sir. I bow to your superior knowledge of my clitoris. How silly of me to think at age 30 (today’s my birthday- shameless plug) and having had multiple partners, (the last, (my husband) being by FAR the best), having mind blowing orgasms on a regular basis, that I am having a satisfying sexual relationship. Far be it for me to have a preference in bed that does not involve his penis. What a silly girl! I clearly am clueless to the ways of the uncut man- I will immediately buy him a “stretcher” and get things worked out. I’ll bet he’ll love it! “Merry Christmas, honey! Look what Santa put in your stocking!”

I believe the federal government should spend half of the national budget showing me how to have better sex. I shall get in touch with both Bush and Gore and see if they’ll add it to their adgendas. Thanks for lighting the way for all of us.

Also, I hardly think it’s Esprix who needs an ice cold shower, my friend.  
Zette

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**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/286 "2000-11-02T01:47:48Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jack Dean Tyler \*  
> \*\*The AAP may come down on my side, but it’s position is a crock of \*\*\*\*, anyway.  
> \*\*

So you’re saying your position is a crock of something? At last, we agree on something.

(Lots of insane ranting not needing responses deleted)

> [@](#):
>
> \>PubMed doesn’t do well with links, but I can give you 100 studies in 20 seconds about penile physiology. I’m gonna try a PubMed link, I don’t know if it will work. 107 articles about the foreskin physiology. \<
> 
> ```
> These are not "studies" of the foreskin. These are apparently various doctors giving their opinions on the foreskin. When I say that the foreskin needs to be studied, I am saying that we should know every nerve, nerve receptor, and every other cell, every type of tissue and system and the exact function of all of these things. Are you trying another red herring here?
> 
> ```

Holy $#\*@!!! _That’s_ your definition of “studied”?? Well then, by your definition, there’s not a single part of the human body that’s been studied. No part of the human body is known to that kind of detail! “Every nerve receptor”? Each nerve cell has thousands! “Exact funtion of all of these things”? We don’t know the exact function of every component of any cell in the body!  
I guess this may explain the need to devote half of the US national budget to the study - we’re talking the most ambitious research project ever attempted - and I’m including the Human Genome Project there. Sheesh.

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**Author:** ![CheapBastid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8baadc/32.png) [@CheapBastid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CheapBastid)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/287 "2000-11-02T06:11:35Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by andros \*  
> I wouldn’t do it to my child, but I have no problems with your doing it to yours, provided there’s no evidence it causes lasting harm. When there is such evidence, I’ll consider it child abuse.

Understood.

Another question - would you consider it an issue of some concern that a country instituted neo-natal pinky toe removal for a great number of years for dubious reasons, then slowly came around to the fact that it is a medically senseless practice? Does a class action suit seem too far off for the medical establishment in this hypothetical country, which also happens to be full of Zotar Damned letigious (sp?) folks?

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**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/288 "2000-11-02T09:52:53Z")

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No doubt about it, JDT passes the Turing test!  
[sub]Aw c’mon, it only makes sense, doesn’t it?[/sub]

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**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/289 "2000-11-02T12:29:23Z")

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I’ve suppressed an urge to respond to this hilarious thread until now but…

> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Smeghead \*  
> I guess this may explain the need to devote half of the US national budget to the study - we’re talking the most ambitious research project ever attempted - and I’m including the Human Genome Project there. Sheesh.

I can see it now: The HPP (The Human Penis Project)

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**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/290 "2000-11-02T13:50:40Z")

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Jack said:

> [@](#):
>
> And, the Jewish agenda would be teaching “tolerance” to the world.

Damn those Jews! How dare they teach that evil “tolerance”?! :mad:

> [@](#):
>
> Are you a member of the Skeptic’s Society?

I’m a member of several skeptics groups, including the Skeptics Society.

> [@](#):
>
> I would like to commend you on how you are moderating this forum, BTW. The only reason that can explain why you haven’t killed off at least half of my posts is that you only do this when you have an objective basis. So, I commend you.

Thanks.

> [@](#):
>
> In any event, I know how you Skeptics think very well. One of my heros is Robert Scheaffer (everything he writes is genius). If you have an argument with me, we are going to come to a very rational meeting of the minds.

Considering the examples of what you consider to be rational, I very much doubt that, Jack. For example, several pages ago I presented you with information from a doctor who studies viruses. But since it contradicted your claims, you pretty much blew 'em off. That is not a rational thing to do. And that is just one of _many_ examples I could pull from the six pages of this thread.

> [@](#):
>
> I’m happy to leave you out of it. The Skeptic’s Society is the final defense against the insanity of the sort that is being displayed in this forum (by posters other than myself).

Mmmmm. Yes. Of course. Everybody here is insane except for you. Why, I bet you’re the only sane person on the whole planet! We shouldn’t be arguing with you, we should be bowing down to you and making you Supreme Emperor of the Earth.

> [@](#):
>
> If you’re a member, I can’t let it go when you call me irrational, so please don’t do it anymore.

You “can’t let it go”? What are you going to do?

> [@](#):
>
> I can’t let it go because it’s hypocrisy and a threat to reason.

The only “threat to reason” around here has the initials “JDT.”

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/291 "2000-11-02T14:09:19Z")

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Okay, somebody help me out here. I’m trying to grapple with one aspect of the facts of Jack’s argument. I’m having a difficult time getting my mind around the whole Jewish/medical conspiracy to mutilate male children that’s existed for thousands of years for some obscure purpose.

One of Jack’s points, as I take it, is that by removing the foreskin, the glans of the penis becomes somewhat desensitized, and the male is not able to achieve orgasm as often. (Jack, if I’m incorrect on this, please let me know.) We’ve also been told that the U.S. Army either forced or strongly encouraged men to become circumsised during WWI and WWII. After the war, these men would therefore have experienced reduced sexual function when they returned home. Is that a fair logical conclusion?

Facts don’t back that up, though. The U.S. experienced the largest population explosion in its history in the years immediately following WWII, and now the “Baby Boomers” are in middle age.

I’m unclear how all these people were produced, since the vast majority of men who became fathers during that time would have difficulty achieving orgasm.

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**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/292 "2000-11-02T16:23:55Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by **Jack Dean Tyler** _
> 
> There can be no “balanced discussion” on circumcision because no one has ever studied the physiology of the foreskin…
> 
> It hasn’t been studied at all…
> 
> You can’t know what amount of damage you’re doing since the foreskin has never been studied…
> 
> There’s no research that you can refer to in order to know…

Then you say:

> [@](#):
>
> Other researchers have put forth the thesis that circumcision leads to a propensity for violence…
> 
> You can study Bud Berkeley’s “Foreskin: A Closer Look” and that will give you a lot of Info. on this…

So which is it, **Jack**? You keep saying there has been no research done on the foreskin, yet you have an abundance of “facts” about it, including allusions to research and a book on foreskins.

Something about “hoisting” and “petards” comes to mind.

Oh, and here’s a gem:

> [@](#):
>
> They’d call me a traitor, but I’d have my foreskin.

This, of course, should be someone’s .sig line.

And, to me, you said:

> [@](#):
>
> I’d suggest you take an ice-cold shower.

First of all, **[Insult deleted. --Gaudere]**. Secondly, nice dodge of the question. A grown man so fascinated by his own penis and other men’s penises, totally hell-bent on restoring every man’s foreskin… I dunno, sounds kinda _gay_ to me…

Esprix

[Edited by Gaudere on 11-02-2000 at 11:20 AM]

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/293 "2000-11-02T16:27:35Z")

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Eeek! :eek:

A thousand pardons to the moderators of this forum - for obviously reasons I had it in my head that this thread had been moved to The Pit. Please feel free to asterik-ize my insults above. \<grovel grovel grovel\>

Esprix

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/294 "2000-11-02T16:32:44Z")

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… from The Onion  
[http://www.theonion.com/onion3117/seemypenis.html](http://www.theonion.com/onion3117/seemypenis.html)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Jack\_Dean\_Tyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@Jack\_Dean\_Tyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Dean_Tyler)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/295 "2000-11-02T18:46:14Z")

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David B,

\> Damn those Jews! How dare they teach that evil “tolerance”?! \<

```
Well, tolerance is one thing, but "tolerance" is something altogether different.

```

\> I’m a member of several skeptics groups, including the Skeptics Society. \<

```
That's good.

```

\> Considering the examples of what you consider to be rational, I very much doubt that, \<

```
Oh?

```

\> For example, several pages ago I presented you with information from a doctor who studies viruses. \<

```
I went back and had a look at this exchange.

```

\>But since it contradicted your claims, you pretty much blew 'em off. That is not a rational thing to do. \<

```
Actually, no, I did not blow off the claims made by this microbiologist. According to you, she said two things: 1) that the keritinization of the glans of a circumcised penis will protect against the AIDS virus; and 2) that circumcision will protect a man from AIDS.
As for the first statement, I very clearly said that I agreed with it. I also pointed out that no research has ever been done to support this but, if anyone did do research to investigate this, I feel that this would probably be the resulting conclusion. As for the second statement, this microbiologist is not even qualified to make such a determination.

```

This is essentially how I responded to your post. This is not blowing off what you said. How can you make such a statement as that?

\> And that is just one of many examples I could pull from the six pages of this thread. \<

```
Well, let's get another example, quick. OK?

```

\> Mmmmm. Yes. Of course. Everybody here is insane except for you. \<

```
Most or the posters here are feeble-minded if you must inquire. I don't know if it is a genetic predisposition or an inflicted predisposition (sexual mutilation) for Americans to dogmatically support the various establishments: Medical establishment (doctors can't be wrong); Jewish establishment (politicians can't be wrong); corporate establishment (my company right or wrong !).

```

\> You “can’t let it go”? What are you going to do? \<

```
Gonna have to challenge you to debate and show contempt for you whenever you don't debate fairly. Since the feeble-minded can't think logically or objectively anyway, no contempt from me will have any acute affect on them. But, for you it's different. There'll be that fear deep down inside that maybe my contempt is justified because you'll have to admit to yourself that I'm doing my best to be logical as I apply my contempt. It's the same sort of heart-wrenching thought process that you go thorough when you decide what posts to delete. I'm sorry to have to use your superior ethics against you, but I offered to leave you out of it.
```

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/296 "2000-11-02T18:57:55Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jack Dean Tyler \*  
> Gonna have to challenge you to debate and show contempt for you whenever you don’t debate fairly. Since the feeble-minded can’t think logically or objectively anyway, no contempt from me will have any acute affect on them. But, for you it’s different. There’ll be that fear deep down inside that maybe my contempt is justified because you’ll have to admit to yourself that I’m doing my best to be logical as I apply my contempt. It’s the same sort of heart-wrenching thought process that you go thorough when you decide what posts to delete. I’m sorry to have to use your superior ethics against you, but I offered to leave you out of it.

You’re in for it now, David. He offered you mercy, but you chose to slap him in the face. How shortsighted could you be?

I’d like to get a response to my debatable question posted earlier, Jack – if circumcision means that a large portion of men experience reduced sexual function (i.e., orgasm), and the U.S. military all but mandated that men must be circumcised during WWII, then how do you explain the baby boom after WWII?

Still waiting on my $6K check, by the way.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Jack\_Dean\_Tyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@Jack\_Dean\_Tyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Dean_Tyler)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/297 "2000-11-02T19:08:04Z")

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Sauron,

\> Okay, somebody help me out here. I’m trying to grapple with one aspect of the facts of Jack’s argument. I’m having a difficult time getting my mind around the whole Jewish/medical conspiracy to mutilate male children that’s existed for thousands of years for some obscure purpose. \<

```
If you're going to put Jewish and medical together you may as well include corporate, for example, Jewish/medical/corporate.
I don't believe that any conspiracy has been going on for thousands of years, though. And, I think that what we are experiencing today is more likely described as a de facto conspiracy. IOW's, there is no mastermind.

```

\> One of Jack’s points, as I take it, is that by removing the foreskin, the glans of the penis becomes somewhat desensitized, and the male is not able to achieve orgasm as often. (Jack, if I’m incorrect on this, please let me know.) \<

```
The glans has very little to do with it even though it does become desensitized after circumcision. Most of the erotic sensitivity is in the foreskin that is amputated.

```

\> We’ve also been told that the U.S. Army either forced or strongly encouraged men to become circumcised during WWI and WWII. \<

```
I don't know of any circumcisions being ordered during WW I.

```

\> After the war, these men would therefore have experienced reduced sexual function when they returned home. Is that a fair logical conclusion? \<

```
It depends what you mean by "sexual dysfunction." IMEO, circumcision will result is a greatly INCREASED sexual libido (studies have shown that circumcised boys masturbate much more). Who knows, maybe the forced circumcisions of Americans during WW II was what was responsible for the baby boom (funny I never thought of that until now).

```

\> Facts don’t back that up, though. The U.S. experienced the largest population explosion in its history in the years immediately following WWII, and now the “Baby Boomers” are in middle age. \<

```
Consistent with the increased libido resulting from circumcisions as I explained.

```

\> I’m unclear how all these people were produced, since the vast majority of men who became fathers during that time would have difficulty achieving orgasm. \<

```
Well, one thing that this little circumcision experiment has firmly established is that a man is still capable of ejaculating without experiencing orgasm. In case anyone ever wondered if that was possible . . .
```

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Cantrip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Cantrip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cantrip)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/298 "2000-11-02T19:09:37Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jackass Dean Tyler \*  
> \*\*David B,
> 
> ```
> Well, tolerance is one thing, but "tolerance" is something altogether different.**
> 
> ```

I dunno, **Esprix** , I kinda like this as a sig.

> [@](#):
>
> **Most or the posters here are feeble-minded if you must inquire. I don’t know if it is a genetic predisposition or an inflicted predisposition (sexual mutilation) for Americans to dogmatically support the various establishments: \<snip\> Jewish establishment (politicians can’t be wrong)\<snip\>**

Sorry, I just couldn’t resist the “snip”.

Jack, you are out of your gourd. Have you been paying any attention to local politics (I mean here on Earth, of course, or Terra, as it is sometimes called)? George Bush - born-again Christian. Al Gore - also born again. Dick Cheney - Christian. Joe Lieberman is the first Jewish candidate with any chance of achieving a top spot in I don’t know how long. If you had said “Hollywood” or “Federal Reserve” or something, I at least could have credited you with being a consistent bigot, but to say that politics is a Jewish establishment is truly the sign of a deranged mind. As if we needed any more signs of that from you.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Jack\_Dean\_Tyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@Jack\_Dean\_Tyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Dean_Tyler)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/299 "2000-11-02T19:19:39Z")

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Esprix,  
\> So which is it, Jack? You keep saying there has been no research done on the foreskin, yet you have an abundance of “facts” about it, including allusions to research and a book on foreskins.\<

```
We're having the very dubious pleasure of observing all the experimental results of the mass circumcision of men in America. That's not the same thing as doing a histological study of the foreskin.

```

\>A grown man so fascinated by his own penis and other men’s penises, totally hell-bent on restoring every man’s foreskin… I dunno, sounds kinda gay to me…\<

```
XOXOXOX
```

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\
**Post date:** [November 2, 2000, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penile-lengthening-column/37716/300 "2000-11-02T19:33:39Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by David B \*  
> \*\*Jack said:
> 
> > [@](#):
> >
> > And, the Jewish agenda would be teaching “tolerance” to the world.
> 
> Damn those Jews! How dare they teach that evil “tolerance”?! :mad:\*\*

**David** , if you really want to blow his mind, just tell him your last name.

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