Schedule alert: Yesterday’s program will be repeated tonight (Friday 7/21/2017) at 9:00 on The CW network.
More seriously now, it sounds like P&T discounted the idea of a trick pen, but did mention it? Does that mean they were fooled because they assumed there was a cue from someone else?
Chickens may have bird brains but they are trainable. It could be a trick pen, paper. Maybe even an odor though they are not supposed to have a great sense of smell, but possibly there is something they are sensitive too. I don’t think of this as a great trick exactly, but none-the-less they fooled P&T so it’s pretty good.
And now thinking about it, P&T thought the magician was cued to then cue the chicken to the right paper, but what if the chicken were cued some other way, like with something inside the fence post prop that was triggered from backstage? Would that have counted?
Hey, I resemble that comment.
So once again, I thought this was a thoroughly entertaining episode. I thought about the chicken routine for awhile.
First off, Penn discounted that the paper was treated in some way, but Jo never acknowledged that, and that wasn’t their legitimate guess. I still feel like the first paper must have been treated in some way.
I watched it again, and he tells Alyson to turn the first piece of paper (with the real dream) over. I noticed as Jo is explaining the rest to her, he takes a quick glance down at what she wrote. Not sure if this is significant in any way, but he could have easily made out the backward writing from the sharpie marker showing through the back. But I’m starting to think it’s the act of placing the paper face down on the bench that may be the key to everything. Notice he doesn’t tell her to do that with the rest of the pieces of paper. I’m thinking (and this might be way out there) that there was some sort of scent or “treat” on the bench which the first paper picked up. The chicken pecked at the correct paper, maybe thinking it was food? That’s the only thing that makes any sense to my fevered brain.
I’ve got to say, the chicken is a very good performer, though. She walks the entire length on cue and actually considers all four pieces of paper before settling on the right one. What’s to stop her from outright choosing the “treated” paper right off the bat? I thought that was interesting.
I thought David’s trick was very, very cool. I like how far he elevated the gap. Of course, I thought there were mirrors in play until the assistant stuck her head through the hole. I’m guessing the dude was planking or something? When they’re turning the contraption around, you never actually see the full back. But how is he able to get in and out of the pants? It’s edited very cleverly.
I really liked the card trick from Jimmy. Very fun to watch. I looked at that Call to the Color method and I still don’t get it, since the camera was pointing face down and it seemed like he was always dealing from the top. But since P&T weren’t fooled, I guess I shouldn’t lose sleep over it.
So, I’m guessing P&T’s trick was basically…where the hell do you buy contacts that look like a “3” and a suit of clubs? That’s amazing!
By the way, in regards to last week’s episode with Richard Turner, HYPO wrote this:
It’s funny, I was thinking the exact same thing throughout the act, since it wasn’t really explicitly stated. Then I looked up his biography and saw that his poor eyesight started at age 9. I started thinking…what if this was just one whole long con he’s been performing his whole life? Wouldn’t that be cool! But I think those dumb “Now You See Me” movies may be influencing my logic. Still, it could be possible… :dubious:
On Episode 308 of Penn’s Sunday School, they spend quite some time discussing the first episode of Fool Us and also the whole premise behind the show. It’s very interesting to listen to and I recommend it. Penn gets into the whole philosophy of what it means to be “fooled”.
That’s a key point: he didn’t respond to what Penn said when he was dismissing the paper. Well, as you said, it wasn’t their ‘official’ guess yet, but likely he didn’t want to lie about it in case Penn circled back and actually made it the guess after rambling a bit.
The paper didn’t necessarily have to be ‘treated’, it could have come exactly as is from the package it came in, but the sheet to be picked simply comes from a different line or different manufacturer than the others. If you’ve ever looked at a paper supply catalog you’d be amazed at how many variations of ‘white’ paper there are – how white is their white? Which bleaches and optical brighteners does Georgia-Pacific use in their process versus Hammermill? All you’d need to find is two brands that look to a human eye the same but which have different levels of ultraviolet brightness. (I cited in my previous post that chicken eyes have receptors sensitive to UV which humans simply don’t have.)
I can’t prove that that is how it’s done, but it’s such a simple explanation and would perfectly ‘solve’ the problem, I really do think it’s the explanation. And so easy: set up a skinner box setup for a while, give the chicken a piece a corn every time she pecks at the paper that is ‘bright’ in UV and none when she chooses the ‘dull’ one. I bet she’s got it mastered within an hour.
Along the same lines, one of the acts that made it through on this years “America’s Got Talent” involved a chicken playing a song on a little electronic keyboard. I immediately thought the trick involved little lights above the keys which a computer would turn on so the chicken pecked the right note. I couldn’t actually see lights going on and off, but I figured that might have just been due to the camera angle or maybe the lights were recessed so you your eye would have to be close up and down on the key level to see them.
Now I think those were probably UV lights as well – no risk of the judges or audience spotting them that way.
And the fact that I’ve seen TWO separate acts involving trained chickens within a month, when I’ve never seen any before, might come from the discovery of chickens UV light sensitivity being a relatively new thing and that info percolating about in magician circles.
(my bold)
I think you meant ‘incubating’.
Anyway, not much discussion here about the guy who sawed himself in half. I was pretty impressed with it. I know there are probably mirrors, definitely contortions, and absolutely camera angles involved, but still a remarkable effect. I would love to see the behind-the-scenes exposé on how that was actually accomplished.
mmm
The cheese trick itself was not terribly impressive, but what a great act. He was funny and entertaining. Well done!
The only act that “fooled” P&T was easily the weakest of the night. As discussed, there were a number of ways it could have been done. They guessed wrong, and actually seemed kind of pissed that they have to give this guy a spot in their show now.
David Caserta’s bit was nicely presented, I guess. But it was simply based on the optical illusion that there was more space concealed by the contraption than it appeared. He was essentially sitting there cross-legged while cranking himself upward. Now, had we seen him step into and out of the box, I’d have been much more impressed. But we didn’t, because of course those weren’t his legs.
Jimmy Ichihana was fantastic. I don’t believe there were any gimmicks there (trick cards, deck switch, etc). He was truly manipulating the cards, and Penn was rightly impressed by how well he did so and how difficult it is. Just amazing.
Burns: Half his act was incredibly annoying, half was uproariously funny. I could see the opportunities he gave himself to manipulate the cheese. The second time watching it, I could clearly see him “palming” (when I knew what the outcome would be).
De Rijck: I think Penn and Teller overthought themselves on this one. I think the first piece of paper was treated in some way that a chicken could tell the difference, but a human could not. If not, the magician would have had Allison choose the piece of paper she wanted, to make the trick look harder.
Ichihana: I usually don’t try to figure out the close up card tricks. There are so many ways to manipulate and the magicians are so good mechanically, that it’s impossible for me to see what’s going on. I absolutely loved his enthusiasm and the way he laughed.
Caserta: Lamest trick of the night by far. You could see right away that those weren’t his real legs. I’m surprised the SDMB had a tough time with this one. Partway through the act, I noticed he was sitting Indian-style, and after that it was impossible not to see it. The cut that was made was a few inches lower than normal, giving him more room to hide his legs. It also made the fake legs look really awkward. It was probably harder for the audience and P&T to see because of the angle, which is why P&T didn’t nail the exact position he was sitting in. But they were close enough for the judges.
My wife and I immediately realized it wasn’t his legs when he went up there. Are the legs we see a video screen?
I just watched the sawed-in-half guy again to be sure. The legs never move during the act, they’re just fake legs. At the end they cut the light, you see the guy and the legs in silhouette, then the camera cuts away to P&T, when it comes back he’s back down on the stage and you don’t see any legs left in the device. So there’s some detail missing, but from the beginning I thought that those fake legs were just shells, maybe open in the back, and he could put his legs and feet back down into them at the end. During the act they rotate the machine a few degrees left and right but not all the way around where you can see anything from behind.
Watched the chicken too. I assume it’s the paper but I don’t know. When he first puts the chicken on the table it walks all the way down to the other end looking at the table. Then it turns around and walks back stopping to look right at each paper. That is one damn welled trained chicken even if it picks the wrong one. And the chicken did peek at what she was writing!
It hasn’t come out yet but on this Wednesday’s Penn’s Sunday School (it’ll be episode 311 I think) Penn talks about the latest episode. Here is what he said:
Jonathan Burns: he really liked this bit and apparently Penn himself had tried to do a trick involving cheese before, but he could never get it to work.
Jo De Rijck: Penn mentioned that he was hopped up on medication (they apparently shoot all animal acts the first day) and was a bit out of it. He didn’t discuss the source of the trick, but he did mention that he learnt something new about chickens that he didn’t know before. This seems to support the ultraviolet theory.
David Caserta: Penn pleaded somewhat ignorant here. He claimed that the issue was with Teller and the guy and that he didn’t know what was going on.
Jimmy Ichihana: he really liked this act (and apparently the magician listens to PSS) and they talked about he studied in Spain.
P&T: Penn told the story about how Teller made those things in his eyes. They aren’t contacts and from the story he told, absolutely horrifying to make.
Episode 2!
While I complimented thin-Penn finally being added to the credits, I kind of feel like now his weight has sort of balanced to a healthy thin, but when the filmed the credits, he was still ‘super’ thin where he looked emaciated, so now the credits feel outdated in the other direction!
Mac King is the first guy I think of with this trick and I enjoy his version. I really enjoyed Burns’ framing shtick and setup. His “pick a card” bit with the identical cheeses was funny and he has good potential in magic from what I can see. I really thought that the cards-across trick seemed like an underwhelming attempt to fool P&T given he appeared from his intro video to have pretty competent sleight skills that might have supported a more complicated or original trick.
For those who don’t clue in to the obvious, the magician palms (in this case) 2 cheeses when handing the pile back to the first volunteer, conceals that hand for a while, and adds them to the pile after the second volunteer counts. The numbers are always chosen to be such that the moved cards aren’t enough for either volunteer to notice that their pile seems thick/thin a few cards.
I give credit to the fact that it doesn’t seem that English is his first language, but his presentation (especially the opening up until Allison arrived) came off as pretty awkward and unnatural. The actual trick was more enjoyable.
Before P&T spoke, my thoughts were right along the lines of P&T. I look at clues as to why things may have been done how they were. He first asks Allison to write the correct dream and then put it face down (implicit is that she will write it on the first paper, as Penn says). It also indicates that the correct dream alone will be set face down before she does the other papers.
He suggests that the papers are unrigged. I’m not sure if the rules of the show allow him to give them to P&T and say that if it’s untrue, so if he is allowed to lie, my first guess is still that the paper is treated in some chicken-luring way - scent, or an ink visible only to a bird or something else.
My other opinion was that the face-down paper was in some way “viewed” by and off-stage assistant (under-table camera? though there is precious little room in his table rig for that - go-pros are pretty small these days). I initially thought that perhaps the nail-holes (they appear to be pre-punched?) could be slightly off for the top paper that had the real dream, but when he didn’t involve himself, I discounted it; but an assistant could still notice that. He indicates that HE didn’t know the correct dream, but that doesn’t mean someone offstage didn’t know and somehow transmit that to the bird. Perhaps each fencepost conceals a vibrating device or ultra-sonic generator that chickens can hear and humans cant or something which attracts the chicken to peck (via training)
It is possible that the only reason he splits the writing of dreams is to simplify the instructions, but I think most people could follow a single instruction: “think of a dream you have. I want you to write down that dream, and on the other three pieces of paper, write down three other dreams that are not yours - decoys, if you will. Then hang the four papers up in any order and the chicken will try to pick which one is yours.” So my mind wonders why he separated those instructions. The only other option is that it was a deliberate red herring.
Otherwise, I’m not sure. Either way, a nice twist on the mentalism where it really takes the magician out of the equation, as he didn’t even touch the papers before or during the trick. Proof that even a campy ubiquitous trick can be tweaked slightly enough to be original and potentially fool P&T. I know some people have disagreed with me on the purpose of the show, but while I appreciate good showmen, the fact that they don’t even tweak the methodology to make it potentially fooling to someone who knows the basic trick (see the first performer from this episode), I just don’t think it takes THAT much effort to at least tweak those classics to make it even slightly possible P&T will be fooled.
Misdirection - why is there a sexy nurse and “death” before the trick starts? probably to misdirect from David going behind a closed curtain. I think it’s pretty self-evident from the fact that he doesn’t move his legs until the saw approaches (and not terribly much) that the legs are fake and his real legs are hidden. Where they are hidden is likely either behind himself in a bit of a back-bend, or perhaps he’s sitting with his legs concealed within the side of the frame. They conveniently edit out how he “gets out” of the rig after it goes very dark. I would like to see that part unedited. Per This youtube clip, there’s a big burst leading to a few moments of darkness - enough to conceal a switch. I don’t think cutting the blood really cut any magic move, because I don’t think those were ever his real legs, so nothing sleighty occurs during the saw cut.
As to the disagreement, I wonder if it was just a matter of quibbling over the exact position of his legs in the machine that Teller didn’t quite get correctly, but the premise of the legs being hidden within the frame was close enough for the judges.
Since you’ve already cited how the trick is done, there isn’t much else to say except that compared to the original method in the book, this method deals the deck out fully, allows the audience to call out 1-2-3 at whim, and also deals with ensuring the suits come out in order. As he says, it’s all about math in the end, and a load of practice, but memorizing the patterns of dealing seconds needed for every option is the bottom line here.
Yep. The 3C is always the giveaway that this is obviously a simple matter of a card force.
Even if he wasn’t blind, the trick is not significantly less impressive so… if he’s conning, I hope he’s using the blindness for a perk that’s much better than making an already impressive trick seem even more impressive 
For the chicken trick, I would note that he doesn’t explicitly acknowledge whether Penn is wrong about the paper being untreated, but he does hand over the paper claiming it’s normal. I don’t know if he’s permitted to lie to them given it was before the deliberations… I don’t think there’s any reason for the paper being face-down to pick up something from the table - why not just pretreat it, unless there’s real chance that she could have picked a different first piece of paper, but if that’s the case, for added mystery, I would tell her there are four pieces of paper and to pick any one she wants to eliminate the assumption that the first paper was pre-rigged.
I also thought the chicken performed very suspensefully. I wonder if that was planned or a happy coincidence for this performance.
I’m pretty sure (without having slo-moed it) that I could notice some second-dealing or even possibly some bottom-dealing in his deals. He dealt so fast that you just don’t notice. He stumbled on dealing ONE card in the trick and I felt that it might have been a second or bottom deal that was notable because of the stumble.
I’m kind of surprised given their wealth and success that at least at THIS point, Teller doesn’t just get custom contact lenses made (someone earlier in the thread suggested they aren’t contacts and that teller makes them himself).
Just missed editing. Last comment: I will also add that the type of trick like the cheese trick is a bit less impressive than other recycles because it’s one of those tricks that works really well when you don’t know what is going to happen, but as soon as you know that some cheese is going to move between people, it’s incredibly easy to spot the move (which is why I like that Mac King doesn’t reveal this until after he has had the two volunteers hide the cards). It’s a great trick for live purposes, but it is not ideal for TV where it can be recorded and studied a second time.
Do you listen to Penn’s Sunday School? They always talk a lot about their weight and how it fluctuates. Sometimes it is a little annoying but they’ve really cut down on it over the last year. Especially since Penn’s book came out.
On a recent episode of Penn’s Sunday School (I think it’s episode 309, but the one where they discuss the first season) they talk about this aspect of the show. The feeling is is that this is a perfect opportunity to showcase yourself and get exposure. Matt Donnelly (one of the writers) mentions that you should have something prepared when talking to Alyson Hannigan because basically, you have 5 minutes to talk to Alyson Hannigan that you can use for your reel. Plus he mentions that many acts use the “Appeared on Fool Us” on their website but never say if they did. It doesn’t really matter. Penn is always mentioning how Piff didn’t fool them (or he might have according to Penn!) but he has his own Vegas show now. So did it matter?
Nice find! watching it closer, I think he is sitting cross-legged. One thing I didn’t notice on the P&T but I did here is that the bottom of the top part of the box isn’t flat. Here you can clearly see it is bumpy (look when they rotate it ). It definitely looks like it adds a few extra cms to hide the legs. Also when he exits the box there is clearly a black panel that wasn’t there before (you can clearly see it at 1:19). As for where the hidden legs go, they could collapse or fold. There are plenty of options.
I took a look at the rest of the 20 minute long video and the tricks are fairly standard. His cut off the head illusion is nice, but unfortunately you can see the fake blade bounce at 8:03. The woman in box is concealed in the bottom of the platform (he rotates it so you can see how much space there is below). His ball in the hole is neat sleight of hand, but he edits together two versions of the trick which really cheapens it. Floating table gag is well known. Taking off the legs of the women looks like the standard trick those floating yodas or gurus you see in tourist places. Coffin woman is again standard. Shadow woman looks interesting but my guess (from the few seconds we see of it) are hiding in the base again. The tissue in the bottle looks really interesting, probably a wire but barely saw any of it. Kid in tent looks like instant stooge. Pass through the solid block is another classic. Floating woman, I dunno. Overall most of the tricks look standard and well known. By the way his main website is on angelfire.com. I find this hilarious.
I’m a week behind, but looks like no one talked about week 3 so I’m in the clear.
Jonathan Burns (cheese): His humor was alright (I’m not as big of a fan of the purposeful awkward types), the trick was pretty simple, almost disappointing even, as it was easy to predict what the trick was going to be and how he did it before it was over.
Jo De Rijck (chicken): My first guess, like P&T, was that the paper was treated somehow. I wonder if the magician was trying to be very specific when he said ‘no smells, no candy’ but still leaving the paper to be different in some fashion that only the chicken would recognize. As others have pointed out, chickens do have some senses we don’t, so it would make sense. There’s no other reason to have Alyson choose the real dream first, and then come up with three other dreams, if the paper wasn’t the difference - otherwise you’d have her write all four at once to eliminate that possibility.
Chicken was a damn good performer, though.
David Caserta (sawblade): Disappointed the edit didn’t show him getting out of the contraption. Looked to me like the legs were a bit ahead of where his body was (and the box certainly had a decent amount of depth). Still a pretty well-designed device though, even though the actual show was pretty poorly acted I thought.
Jimmy Ichihana (cards): Impressive. At first I thought it was just dealing from the bottom when needed, but clearly there’s some more work involved in terms of counting cards or whatnot.
Jesus H. Christ!
SHIN MOTHERFUCKING LIM
I loved Teller’s tribute to Johnny Thompson. He even looks just like Thompson with that wig and his mannerisms and expressions. Fantastic.
Misty Lee: A knife dropping act with, for some reason, Louie Anderson. I definitely agree with Penn that I like her taking a more aggressive role. As for the trick, I wasn’t too impressed. I assumed that the cards might have been rigged on the back as Anderson does put it down, clearly for her to see. I imagine maybe a similar thing for the knives. Penn seems to imply this in what he says, although I can’t figure out what he means by stuff on the stage. Maybe again referring to how the knives and cards are marked in a very specific and subtle way?
Shin Lim: wow I didn’t know he injured himself. That’s really gotta suck. Anyway his sleight of hand is amazing. My guess for the first bit is that many cards have completely black backs, which allows them to be well hidden on the black matte. As for the deck colour change, I dunno. The last little change you can see his hands moving to change the joker to a P also I think the deck has half “blank” and half suits. Thus if you fan them one way they appear blank and the other they have suits. He does rotate the deck by 180 degrees which is a big hint. To the last bit, I dunno, fancy sleight of hand. I definitely feel like his previous act was way better. A small problem I have is that he is doing many, many tricks so some fooled me but others didn’t.
Andi Gladwin: I liked this trick simply because it was very unique. Honestly, I wasn’t sure how he did it because I dismissed a rigged deck, but it appears to be so after listening to Penn talk. Alyson only reads the top few so I guess the rest were just scuba diver. I suppose when he comes out the tank is on his head. Regardless, it’s something really unique that makes me like it.
Murray Hatfield and Tesera: a simple trick but damn did they do so smooth. Honestly I was even a bit fooled because I thought maybe the woman would vanish into the centre thing and then reappear later but nope, just a straight up switch that was super fast. Okay, the fake hand is obvious and I imagine it’s a trapdoor, but I still had to say it looked great.
P&T: Penn has spoken about how Teller has been working really hard on this trick and how he gets to play the drums. It is quite easy to figure out how it’s done, but that’s not the point, it’sa great comic routine and it is great to see it passed on to another generation.
I don’t have much to add to this.
I wasn’t paying attention to the beginning of the knife act, but my initial impression was that all of the knives were retractable, but maybe had a hidden “switch” to lock it in place? That way, whichever knife she chose at the end, all she had to do was make sure it retracted before stabbing it into the victim. That seems like the safest way to play it, anyhow.
It was nice to see Shin Lim win again. He seems like a nice kid. And he’s obviously very serious about his magic since he nearly severed his thumb. I agree, there were so many tricks done that I couldn’t keep track of it all. All he had to do was fool them on one of them and it was a lock.
I liked the balloon trick too. I kind of want to hear people’s theories about how he was successfully able to choose scuba diving. Were there any possible backup choices? Penn seems to hint that the (heavy) tank may have concealed more than one item/costume.
The ol’ switcheroo. I thought this was played masterfully. So was the hand fake the entire time, or was there some careful maneuvering going on behind the curtain? It was a really quick change, but you can see Murray kinda catching his breath when he’s in the box.
I keep forgetting what a great musician Penn is. I remember going to see their show at the Rio a decade or so back and Penn was playing upright bass during the entire pre-show. He was incognito (hair completely down, hat, dark glasses), but as soon as I pointed him out to my friend, he nodded towards me in acknowledgement. Apparently no one else at the time had noticed. (I believe he did/does this before every show.)
To wit, Mr. HYPO: If you’re suggesting that he “accidentally” walks into ladies’ locker rooms and then claims to be blind, then I think you’ve stumbled upon gold! 
I wondered about this as well - I noticed that as she’s putting the knives in the rack, she puts her index finger on the bit protruding from the handle of each one as if it’s a button she’s manipulating.