# Penn and Teller: Fool Us **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 12, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362 "2011-01-12T17:56:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/81 "2011-01-17T18:09:27Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Maybe it only works 20% of the time. That’s what I said in an earlier post. Maybe he figured he’s take a 20% shot at winning the chance to perform in Vegas, and he got lucky. Of course he then was risking an 80% chance of failure but maybe he figured it was worth it. Obviously that’s not what happened, but it’s a funny thought. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/82 "2011-01-17T18:13:22Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > you can palm a playing card. you can’t palm an envelope. plus, as i said earlier, he fans out the envelopes at multiple times throughout the act, which would be darn near impossible to keep the envelopes in check. if he DOES manage to somehow keep the 6th envelope perfectly aligned throughout the entire act, then that is one of the more impressive slight of hand feats ever. The extra one could be slightly sticky. The odds are that you wouldn’t have to move it to the back of a different envelope too often. If the flap has been removed it would be even easier. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/83 "2011-01-17T18:18:12Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > you can palm a playing card. you can’t palm an envelope. plus, as i said earlier, he fans out the envelopes at multiple times throughout the act, which would be darn near impossible to keep the envelopes in check. if he DOES manage to somehow keep the 6th envelope perfectly aligned throughout the entire act, then that is one of the more impressive slight of hand feats ever. Yea, I watched that part a second time, when he pulls the real money out of the envelope the camera goes into an extreme close-up on his hands. It really looks like a single envelope, even when he moves the envelope around. It’d be pretty damn hard to keep two envelopes lined up like that, even if they had some sort of sticky glue on one face. And its hard to see how he could’ve pulled off the other obvious method, switching out the envelope with another concealed on his person with P & T both watching him. Especially as he only has a narrow window to do it b I dunno. When I first saw it I thought Penn and Teller couldn’t get it for more or less the reasons **Sam Stone** said earlier, that it was such a basic trick that there was more then one way to pull it off, so they didn’t know exactly which one Archer chose, and so he sort of won in a way that wasn’t really in the spirit of the contest. But thinking about it some more, I think its just a really good trick and despite his pretty laid back, non-serious demeanor, Archer legitimately had the best trick of the evening. Certainly it was a lot harder to see through then P & T’s own fish trick. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/84 "2011-01-17T18:51:54Z")
Well, I finally got to see the whole thing and I had to comment on one of the acts. I cannot believe the guy who came in with a trick deck. Not because magicians can’t use trick decks, but because it’s a trick deck you can buy at flippin’ Walmart. Heck, I had that exact deck given to me as a birthday present. It just seems really odd that anyone would go on stage with that, let alone think they could trick someone, let alone actual magicians. I think Penn even knew what it was, without asking Teller. You could tell by his face. Heck, I bet **ianzin** could come on here and explain how it’s done without breaking the magician’s code. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/85 "2011-01-17T19:04:17Z")
nvm ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/86 "2011-01-17T21:15:07Z")
I’m at work, so haven’t been able to watch the whole video, but a thought: What if the bills aren’t real, and each envelope has 5 bills in it but concealed so that you have to open the envelope in a certain way to access them… is that possible? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/87 "2011-01-17T21:23:58Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#): > > I’m at work, so haven’t been able to watch the whole video, but a thought: > > What if the bills aren’t real, and each envelope has 5 bills in it but concealed so that you have to open the envelope in a certain way to access them… is that possible? P & T actually examine one of the envelopes that were given to the audience members, presumably they would’ve noticed any secret compartment type scheme. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/88 "2011-01-17T21:33:28Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > That’s what I said in an earlier post. Maybe he figured he’s take a 20% shot at winning the chance to perform in Vegas, and he got lucky. Of course he then was risking an 80% chance of failure but maybe he figured it was worth it. > > Obviously that’s not what happened, but it’s a funny thought. Actually, while I agree that its a) funny and b) not what happened it might be kinda on the right track. If the trick requires the magician to pull some sort of switch _only if_ an audience member picks the envelope with the real money, then its possible that he lucked into simply having the audience members all pick the four dummy envelopes on this particular night, and thus not had to do his normal slight of hand, which would’ve been picked up by P & T. Admittedly still not terribly likely, especially since he apparently showed Penn after the show, and Penn was impressed with whatever the trick was. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/89 "2011-01-17T21:36:08Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#): > > I’m at work, so haven’t been able to watch the whole video, but a thought: > > What if the bills aren’t real, and each envelope has 5 bills in it but concealed so that you have to open the envelope in a certain way to access them… is that possible? From the way Archer talks, my impression is that the contents of the envelopes (and presumably the envelopes) are intended to be kept by the audience members as mementos. Some audience member is bound to figure it out since they’re holding the envelope in their hands. They’ll feel the bills inside the envelope if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Slade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@Slade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slade)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/90 "2011-01-17T23:00:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I cannot believe the guy who came in with a trick deck. […] It just seems really odd that anyone would go on stage with that, let alone think they could trick someone, let alone actual magicians. The trick deck guy and the other entrant who used an off-the-shelf prop clearly had no hope of fooling Penn & Teller, but I guess the show’s producers couldn’t have filled the whole hour without them. From the challengers’ point of view, they got a bit of free exposure on national TV which they can now splash all over their promotional material when looking for gigs. There’s plenty of working magicians would give their eye teeth for that. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/91 "2011-01-17T23:20:38Z")
For pity’s sake, people, it’s _ **sleight** _ of hand. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/92 "2011-01-17T23:30:45Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > For pity’s sake, people, it’s _ **sleight** _ of hand. Even if they have very slender hands? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/93 "2011-01-17T23:37:03Z")
Guanoload reminds me of a question. For a good magician’s act, whats the breakdown of tricks that are mostly some slieght of hand vs ones where things arent happening the way you think they are. If you get my drift. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/94 "2011-01-18T01:16:13Z")
Sleight of hand per se is not required at all. Stage magic often has no sleight of hand, it’s basically close up magic that needs it. If you’re referring to trick props and doubles also, the balance doesn’t really matter. The whole point is to get the audience to perceive something different from reality. Great comic magicians may not even do that, they’re just entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/95 "2011-01-21T22:58:39Z")
I just watched this, and I thought it was amazing television, especially when compared to the dross found elsewhere on ITV. It’s a shame it didn’t find an audience. Archer reminded me of a young lad I used to work with. If you saw him coming down the street you’d tut about the state of kids today, and I’m pretty sure we found him in a picture of a football riot, but he could knock your socks off with a deck of cards. I remember reading (probably on this board) that magicians used to wear evening dress to fit in with the audience and demonstrate that they weren’t anything special - the guy I knew was like the modern equivalent, in a pair of ratty tracksuit pants and a polo neck. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/96 "2011-01-22T01:37:36Z")
Robert-Houdin is generally credited for creating the model of the gentleman magician wearing formal clothes. He seemed to want to raise the acceptance of magic as an art form to be conducted in fine theaters, and he dressed in a style befiitting that. That’s what someone said that he said. It’s hard to get the details on his life. But before Houdin, magicians often wore costumes associated with the a supernatural concept, such as a wizard’s robe and cap. It seems like most stage magicians still prefer the formal wear. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/97 "2011-01-22T02:23:14Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Actually, while I agree that its a) funny and b) not what happened it might be kinda on the right track. If the trick requires the magician to pull some sort of switch _only if_ an audience member picks the envelope with the real money, then its possible that he lucked into simply having the audience members all pick the four dummy envelopes on this particular night, and thus not had to do his normal slight of hand, which would’ve been picked up by P & T. > > Admittedly still not terribly likely, especially since he apparently showed Penn after the show, and Penn was impressed with whatever the trick was. Another possibility (still not likely) is that if somebody did choose the envelope with the money he’d then proceed to do a completely different trick. Maybe call that person up onto the stage then make the bills vanish or something. Since no one would know what to expect they wouldn’t know that he had changed the course of the trick. This is actually a principle of some tricks. Change the outcome to match the spectators choice or a die roll or whatever. The big problem with it is that you can’t repeat if for the same audience. ---
**Author:** ![sco3tt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@sco3tt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sco3tt)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362/98 "2011-01-22T04:03:12Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Exactly. This is Penn and Teller, the act that invented a new method of the Cups and Balls, which is probably the oldest trick in the book and roughly equal to inventing an entirely new sex act. Never having heard the term “Cups and Balls”, at first I thought you _ **were** _ describing an entirely new sex act. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-and-teller-fool-us/567362.md?page=4)