# Penn Jillette: Religious folk SHOULD proseletyze?!?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823 "2008-12-18T23:14:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/61 "2008-12-20T01:46:50Z")
Charity and compassion are the best form of proselytization. Live well and people will ask you how you do it, then you explain. Build a Christian soup kitchen, let people know that Christ inspired you to do it. It really is that simple. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/62 "2008-12-20T05:03:04Z")
It’s a bit late in the thread to say this, but it’s pretty neat that Gillette would say this. He’s an athiest, but in being one he also seems to be a man of belief. I hand it to him for respecting another guy who stands by his beliefs even though they may seem at odds with Gillette’s. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/63 "2008-12-20T21:34:34Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > The actual quote is from St. Francis of Assisi: “Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words.” It’s one of my favorite quotes. Good thing you corrected the wording of the quote. Not many people realize St Francis spoke in modern English. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/64 "2008-12-21T04:15:37Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I guess nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. They believed eternal salvation of the soul was much more important than eartly life and so, if you had to burn heretics at the stake, well, that was well worth it. This is incorrect. The Spanish Inquisition did not believe anything of the sort. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/65 "2008-12-21T05:16:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You’re working under the misconception that Jews care what Christians believe. We don’t. Let them think that a giant rutabaga pie was the Son of God, for all we care, so long as they leave us alone. Well, as long as you Jews leave everyone else alone too. (Which, thank O-g you folks mostly do. Judaism sure works a lot better for me than Islam or Christianity, but it is still centered around the irrational belief in a non-existent being (IMO)). ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/66 "2008-12-21T05:20:52Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > This is incorrect. The Spanish Inquisition did not believe anything of the sort. Are you sticking up for the violent, evil thugs that were the Inquisitors? Really? Wow. NOBODY EXPECTS someone to actually defend THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!! ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/67 "2008-12-21T05:45:42Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Are you sticking up for the violent, evil thugs that were the Inquisitors? Really? Wow. I was fighting ignorance, as Cecil commanded. Here is some actual information about the Spanish Inquisition, as provided by historian Marian Horvat. > [@](#): > > Myth: The hideous procedures of the Inquisition were unjust, cruel, inhumane, and barbaric. The Inquisition roasted their victims’ feet over fire, bricked them up into walls to languish for all eternity, smashed their joints with hammers, and flayed them on wheels. > > Reality: Despite the compelling Gothic fictions, the evidence leads us to a wholly different conclusion. The procedures of the Inquisition are well known through a whole series of papal bulls and other authoritative documents, but mainly through such formularies and manuals as were prepared by St. Raymond Peñaforte (c1180-1275), the great Spanish canonist, and Bernard Gui (1261-1331), one of the most celebrated inquisitors of the early 14th Century. The Inquisitors were certainly interrogators, but they were theological experts who followed the rules and instructiones meticulously, and were dismissed and punished when they showed too little regard for justice. When, for example, in 1223 Robert of Bourger gleefully announced his aim to burn heretics, not to convert them, he was immediately suspended and imprisoned for life by Gregory IX.16 > [@](#): > > Certain objective studies carried out by recent scholars have argued that torture was practically unknown in the medieval inquisitorial process. The register of Bernard Gui, the inquisitor of Toulouse for six years who examined more than 600 heretics, shows only one instance of where torture was used. Further, in the 930 sentences recorded between 1307 and 1323 (and it is worthwhile to note that meticulous records were kept by paid notaries chosen from civil courts), the majority of the accused were sentenced to imprisonment, the wearing of crosses, and penances. Whole article here: > **[Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos](https://www.yahoo.com/)** > > Latest news coverage, email, free stock quotes, live scores and video are just the beginning. Discover more every day at Yahoo! ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/68 "2008-12-21T06:28:58Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Judaism is _not_ a proselytizing religion. > In fact, if you wan to convert to Judaism, the rabbi is obligated to refuse you three times before he says yes. “Am I a Jew yet?” “No!” “Am I a Jew yet?” “No!” “Am I a Jew yet?” “No!” “Am I a Jew yet?” “Alright! Alright! Enough already! Oy!” ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/69 "2008-12-21T06:38:17Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The afterlife is not a sequence of moments that happens to be endless. Rather, it is a place without time. The common misconception seems to arise from cartoons and other unworthy sources, not from any sound understanding of the issue. What is this “sound understanding of the issue”? How did you come to know this? If you really have access to that sort of information than you must be a God or at least as powerful as one. I’ve heard that God’s ways are unknowable yet you seem to know them. Is this really all about you? Are you God? If not, maybe you shouldn’t go around stating such fantastical things with such certainty. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/70 "2008-12-21T06:42:56Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Do I have a memory? Do I remember what my Earthly existence was? > > If it’s a completely different existence, will I know I’m floating blissfully along or being endlessly tortured (thanks, loving god!!!)? Will I have anything to compare my existence to? You can make your own Heaven any way you want. 12, 24, 48, 72 virgins or even a Gross! YOU make the call! 'Cause it’s all make-believe, see? What fun! We used to plays games like this when we were kids, but that was years ago (I guess some folks still find the game amusing). ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/71 "2008-12-21T19:20:51Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > What is this “sound understanding of the issue”? How did you come to know this? Study, observation, and deduction. The same methods that I use to learn everything else that I know. > [@](#): > > If you really have access to that sort of information than you must be a God or at least as powerful as one. This is an incorrect and inane statement. > [@](#): > > I’ve heard that God’s ways are unknowable yet you seem to know them. You’ve heard incorrectly. God has made Himself known to us at many times throughout history. > [@](#): > > Is this really all about you? No. > [@](#): > > Are you God? No. > [@](#): > > If not, maybe you shouldn’t go around stating such fantastical things with such certainty. There is nothing fantastical about anything I say. As for your advice, thanks but I’m afraid that I’ll be ignoring it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/72 "2008-12-23T01:50:16Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > I was fighting ignorance, as Cecil commanded. Here is some actual information about the Spanish Inquisition, as provided by historian Marian Horvat. I wouldn’t go to Marion Horvat as a source, if I were you. But what you quoted wasn’t about the Spanish Inquisition, it was about the Medieval Inquisition. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823/73 "2008-12-23T03:34:38Z")
I must say I totally agree with Penn on this point. Most of the proseletyzers I see are more like programmed robots spewing crap their verbal crap without knowing anything about me. Much like a door to door salesman trying to make a buck. They don’t know me and probably don’t give a damn what happens to me, all they know is they have a “quota” to meet. Now, if someone I know and have some sort of relationship with sits me down and earnestly tells me he/she is concerned about my soul blah blah blah, then I will show the courtesy of listening. As Penn says, if they can look me in the eye and be straight with me about how they feel I will respect them for sharing and trying to help. I’ll still think they are deluded and hopefully ask questions they will find provoking but I won’t write them off as fools or belittle them. So in essence, I’m saying that while I think religion is a primitive blight on humanity that we should have outgrown long ago, I would respect someone who truly did not want me to suffer for all eternity because I can’t believe in some magical sky pixie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-jillette-religious-folk-should-proseletyze/477823.md?page=3)