Why? It would take so long to type it all that I’d waste half my night. Why would I bother doing that when it’s obvious that you’re impervious to the hundreds and hundreds of words that have already been typed on this board. You’re going to continue to call for ironclad proof, which is idiotic in about 10 different ways.
There is plenty of evidence that Joe Paterno wielded the lion’s share of power at Penn State, despite your protestations to the contrary. When the AD and President of the school show up to ask for your resignation, and you say “fuck you”, that means you have more power than they do. They knew they couldn’t fire Parerno without pissing off the entire damn state.
There is plenty of evidence that Paterno orchestrated, or at the very least participated, in the cover-up. That evidence begins with the lies he told to the grand jury, and ends with an email that points to him as the guy calling the shots. Yeah, I know you require a confession with the stamp of a notary public before you’ll consider it, but there is plenty of evidence that he was calling the shots.
I can’t imagine other fans lamenting the ‘death’ of their school just because of limited sanctions. There is more to most colleges than one athletic program. Penn State is known as Linebacker U for christsake. I don’t see anyone calling Michigan “Quarterback U”. Where else does a coach get to choose the athletic director, his boss? Not at Ohio State, not at Miami, not at LSU.
The students can still go to their games which will have more quality football players than most schools could dream of, but one wouldn’t know that from the hand-wringing.
I think that the heads of colleges won’t allow any one athletic program to become the focus of the school like it was a Penn State. When criminal culpability appears, they will swiftly and repeatedly alter the authorities, not sweep it under the rug.
So you can’t do it huh? Must burn I guess. That someone who read the actual report interrupted your lynch mob with reasonable questions and facts.
You have a cite for that?
Actually there is basically no evidence he orchestrated the coverup. He certainly participated, but that was not the claim being addressed. Feel free to link to the appropriate evidence if you disagree.
There is no email pointing to him as the guy that calls the shots.
Of course it is. That is not the argument. Nobody is saying Paterno wasn’t a bad actor here. The problem is they are using his involvement, and his position to implicate the entire program. If Paterno is not largely orchestrating the cover up, the case against the “culture of football” falls apart. The basis for the argument to punish Penn State football is that Paterno had too much power, and that he wielded that power to protect a criminal in order to protect the football team. There is very little evidence that this was the cause or motivation for the coverup. If Paterno is not calling the shots, it makes his job position incidental at best.
I think the argument is being made because the culture of football is largely synonymous with Paterno’s cult of personality/presence/influence. His actions perpetuate that distortion field and therefore when that culture promotes a coverup of great atrocity, they attack the source.
Did you stop reading after the first sentence? I did do it.
This is at least the 3rd time in this thread that you have demonstrated total ignorance of an event that is common knowledge and has been referenced in the media multiple times since 2005. There was a meeting after the 2004 season in which 4 administrators asked for Joe Paterno’s resignation. He refused. Since you continue to ask for cites long after they’ve been provided for you, I’m not sure why I should bother.
If this isn’t good enough for you, there are about 1000 more on the internet.
It’s called the fucking Freeh Report. There is plenty of evidence in there that was good enough for the director of the FBI, the NCAA, Penn State University and the rest of the Western World, but you and Fotheringay-Philips must have a much higher standard. Here’s a hint though: evidence is not the same as iron-clad proof.
There is no one email that points to any one person calling the shots. It is, however, reasonable to assume that the man who holds the most power calls the fucking shots. If you think otherwise, then that is an extraordinary claim.
Really? Your argument is that attacking the source of a “distortion field” is logical? What is this even supposed to mean? It’s just vague notions that presume Paterno was so important that he was in charge at all times directing people to look the other way. It presumes malice where it likely doesn’t exist. The “culture”, however you want to define it, didn’t promote a coverup, a few guys who presumably felt liable, did.
The problem is that as nice as your theory sounds, the conclusions you drew don’t comport with the facts. Regardless of what people thought of Paterno, he wasn’t the one calling the shots, nor was he solely responsible for covering up the abuse.
To better understand you here: Are you saying we should just punish the guys in charge and leave the team/its wins alone because this is an off-field issue that doesn’t directly relate to football itself?
So your bullshit story, which the article addresses, was erroneous. According to a person present at the meeting, he was not asked to quit, nor did he tell say “fuck you” to anyone.
Please quote your strongest evidence?
It’s not reasonable to assume that since Paterno did not have the most power in any meaningful sense, and because we have a clear account of the actions and thoughts of the people involved. It is clear from their emails and notes that they were acting independently of Paterno, and that Paterno was often not even involved or kept in the loop on many occasions.
All the people that are closest to the situation and all the people that have authority to do something about the situation disagree with you. The fact that you and a few people remain unconvinced isn’t really important.
Of course he didn’t literally say “fuck you” for god’s sake, it was hyperbole. Many other sources say he was asked to retire and that he flat refused. Other sources have him throwing the guys out of his damn house. Seriously, this is a well known incident that was reported on by every major news outlet for over 7 years. Go do some damn research for once.
Joe Paterno had more power than anyone n State College in 1998 and 2001, and #2 wasn’t even in the same zip code. He was in charge of their biggest marketing effort, a marketing effort that raised millions of dollars per year and funded every other sport on campus. He also donated an enormous amount of his personal money to the school, all while working on a salary that was considerably lower than that of his peers. On top of that, he was, without a shadow of a doubt, the most beloved man in Central Pennsylvania. When everyone thinks you’re a fucking god, and you make a bunch of money for the university, you’re the most powerful man there. The fact that you are arguing otherwise is proof positive of the astounding level of ignorance you have on this subject.
When the most powerful man in the room is in on a conspiracy, then he’s the one calling the shots.
The reason why the program was taken down was because the program is pretty much synonymous with Paterno, who enjoyed a sort of quasi-religious status as a God on campus. The head honchos covered this thing up to preserve that culture and avoid bad publicity. There’s a severe lack of judgment and proper prioritization because of the way the system works and the values that are upheld. You can see it in the way students defend this guy as if he’s some infallible pillar of perfection.
That’s why they’re crushing the program down. Paterno created this environment where authority and appearances were everything, and it cultivated a warped sense of morality. Whether he played a role or “orchestrated” the whole thing is quibbling semantics. Either way, he participated in an active cover up of a heinous act for the sake of his football program and had unlimited support to do it.
Even with the major figureheads gone, those warped moral values still exist on campus. They have to shut things down a while in hopes that the school can get itself together and put an end to the kind of craziness that allowed this to go unpunished in the first place. Had this been a chemistry teacher committing rape at Penn State, this would have been taken care of eons ago.
Well, I don’t think so. Lots of people in and around Penn State knew something about Sandusky and failed to do the right thing. I find no explanation for this mass moral failure that doesn’t involve the local culture’s football-centrism. Most people think Paterno himself embodied that.
The NCAA has basically said that players who want to transfer and schools that want to keep them will be accommodated. If the school is already at their scholarship limit, they can still take the player. They will probably have to deduct the slot used for him this year from next year’s roster, although I read a suggestion that even that may not be necessary, if it’s just one player at a given new school.
Right. Is that why you quoted it? More importantly, according to people at the meeting, HE WAS NOT ASKED TO QUIT.
More argument by assumption. If Paterno was as powerful as you suggest, then he wouldn’t have acted in the manner he did. Why does the “most powerful man on campus” run to his bosses when he gets an allegation of abuse? He could have easily said nothing. Why is he not consulted on several major actions taken by the other principle actors? Please explain that?
He didn’t run to his bosses. He sat on the information for a couple of days. Then he informed them of what he knew. Again, you display an astounding level of ignorance, compounded by the fact that you refuse to believe Paterno was the most powerful man on campus. After interviewing 240 people, Freeh thought that he was. Paterno knew for a fact that he was.
“It is my job now to figure out what we want to do.”
“Burying history and facts” – isn’t that exactly what Paterno and company were doing? Only they were doing so to protect their precious football team – at the expense of children being raped.
No one is “pretending” he wasn’t a winning coach. It’s still in the history books – if you can look up who won such and such bowl game, you’ll still see it was Penn State, but those games officially don’t count, anymore. They’re basically considered to be like exhibition games. It’s not like they’ve completely erased them from the history books. People know he was a winning coach – but they taken away credit for those wins.
Punishment is supposed to hurt. Imagine that.