# Penn & Teller: Fool Us (season 8) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** reality-or-game-show\ **Created:** [October 7, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079 "2021-10-07T14:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/21 "2021-11-21T14:20:50Z")
On the last episode the person who won the trophy had something based on Paper, Rock, Scissors. I believe this was logic not “magic”. I came up with something while thinking about it. By the way, this will probably give away how he did it. If you have three people and give one a rock (his name is A), one scissors (B) and one paper (C), we know that A beats B, B beats C and C beats A. Then you have two the people exchange their objects. There are multiple two person exchanges. You will not know what objects they will end up with, but you do know this… If there are an even number of exchanges then you know it’s the same as it started. A beats B, B beats C and C beats A, even if you don’t know what they will end up with. If there are an odd number of changes then it’s opposite. B beats A, C beats B and, A beats C. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/22 "2021-11-22T04:52:46Z")
Yeah I came to the same conclusion. Once he forced the 3 people to have the items he wanted, by virtue of how they were in the box, all of his predictions would be true. Oh well…P&T thought too hard on it I guess. These last two episodes have been snoozers for me. I don’t think I really enjoyed any of the tricks except the guy with the sponge balls. He was fun and talented! ---
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/23 "2021-11-22T15:07:47Z")
While he may have forced the items he wanted he didn’t need to. It could be: After the three people pick their items, then see if Penn’s object beats Teller’s. If so (it did on the show), then have an odd number of total exchanges in the three rounds, such as 2+2+3. If Teller’s beats Penn’s then have an even number, such as 2+3+3. That makes his final prediction come true. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/24 "2021-11-22T17:51:41Z")
Apparently the secret to the electrical tape/ring/necklace trick is ancient and simple (according to P&T) but damn is it impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/25 "2022-01-09T20:35:18Z")
I’ve been backlogged this season and therefore avoiding this thread, and I am finally caught up. There was one trick earlier in the season that left me totally dumbfounded. I’m afraid I don’t recall who the magician was or even which episode. The trick involved Alyson and an oversized deck of cards. The magician repeatedly held up allegedly random cards and had Alyson say “black” or “red”, and she was right every time. Nice, but could have been accomplished by good sleight of hand. But the finale of the trick blew me away. He had Alyson herself shuffle the cards, pick one, and lay it face down in front of her. He then asked her “black or red,” “diamond or heart,” “high or low,” etc., until she had narrowed down to a single card. He had her turn it over and, sure enough, that was the card. He never handled the deck himself and I can think of no way he could have forced Alyson’s choices. P&T were not fooled, but I sure was. Penn talked about “tapping” and “smacking,” but alas, googling those terms didn’t help me much. Great trick. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/26 "2022-08-10T09:01:42Z")
Like @Wheelz, I’ve only just caught up with this season. > [@Wheelz](#): > > There was one trick earlier in the season that left me totally dumbfounded. I’m afraid I don’t recall who the magician was or even which episode. That was Micah in Episode 5. His was easily the most impressive trick I’ve seen on the show so far. Does anyone have any idea how it’s done? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/27 "2022-08-10T14:40:40Z")
I didn’t remember that one. The guys are indicating that it’s a physical motion with the cards. They’re talking about the Stooges like Moe slapping Larry, but a couple of other hints thrown in I think. Perhaps ‘Three Stooges’ is the name of a trick. Obviously he didn’t need to do anything when Alyson guessed right, and he may have done some leading to get Alyson to guess right, but he had to do a major change to some cards, on the fly, to make this work. I’ll note these are extra large cards, a common magician’s supply material. If you are going to have cards that mechanically change then it may be easier with extra big ones. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/28 "2022-08-10T14:53:10Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The guys are indicating that it’s a physical motion with the cards. They’re talking about the Stooges like Moe slapping Larry, but a couple of other hints thrown in I think. Perhaps ‘Three Stooges’ is the name of a trick. Obviously he didn’t need to do anything when Alyson guessed right, and he may have done some leading to get Alyson to guess right, but he had to do a major change to some cards, on the fly, to make this work. I’ll note these are extra large cards, a common magician’s supply material. If you are going to have cards that mechanically change then it may be easier with extra big ones. I think the idea is that she’s his stooge, and he’s tapping when “black” gets said (if it’s black). ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/29 "2022-08-10T14:56:12Z")
I assume you’re using “stooge” to mean Alyson is in on the trick and helping him. I don’t believe that’s allowed within the rules of the show. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/30 "2022-08-10T14:57:42Z")
Not usually; but he explicitly specified that she’d be the magician doing the trick this time. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/31 "2022-08-10T15:30:35Z")
I don’t think they’d allow it. If Alyson was the magician then Micah would be a stooge. They may have been talking about leading some of her responses, but it has to be more than that. Have to look for something going on now that I’ve heard Penn’s ‘explanation’. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/32 "2022-08-10T15:51:01Z")
I didn’t pick up a thing. So maybe this is an ‘instant stooge’ thing going on. In one act Alyson might have been given audible clues using a metal straw in a drink. Another controversial act is assumed to have been done with an ‘instant stooge’. I can’t see any way the trick could be done if any of Alyson’s ‘guesses’ were wrong. ETA: He would have had the cards marked. We can’t see the backs clearly, can Alyson see very apparent markings that say what the card is? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/33 "2022-08-10T16:32:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I didn’t pick up a thing. So maybe this is an ‘instant stooge’ thing going on. In one act Alyson might have been given audible clues using a metal straw in a drink. Another controversial act is assumed to have been done with an ‘instant stooge’. I can’t see any way the trick could be done if any of Alyson’s ‘guesses’ were wrong. You wouldn’t hear any audible clues if he’s tapping her shin with his foot right when he says “red” or “black” or whatever: that would explain why there’s a long tablecloth, and why he keeps saying “red or black” even when he’s supposedly out of the equation. It’d also explain why she makes no wrong guesses, and why she doesn’t need to know how to read the marked cards; it’s enough that _he_ knows how to read marked cards, and knows how to kick her around. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/34 "2022-08-10T16:50:33Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t think they’d allow it. If Alyson was the magician then Micah would be a stooge. But he’s obviously _In On It_; everyone in the audience in general, and Penn and Teller in particular, were presumably clear on the fact that he’s doing a trick he’d planned out ahead of time and rehearsed the patter for and so on. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/35 "2022-08-10T19:09:42Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You wouldn’t hear any audible clues if he’s tapping her shin with his foot right when he says “red” or “black” or whatever: that would explain why there’s a long tablecloth, and why he keeps saying “red or black” even when he’s supposedly out of the equation. It’d also explain why she makes no wrong guesses, and why she doesn’t need to know how to read the marked cards; it’s enough that _he_ knows how to read marked cards, and knows how to kick her around. That’s a good explanation. It’s clear Alyson goes along with the tricks and doesn’t try to spoil them. I don’t think that would work well with just any person chosen to assist. But there my have been techniques he could have used if Alyson hadn’t been that cooperative. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/36 "2022-08-10T20:23:50Z")
I still reject the notion that Alyson was a stooge, instant or not. I remember a trick a few years ago where audience members read sealed “predictions” regarding a set of random circumstances, and it turns out the cards just said something like “please say the correct item,” and the volunteers went along with it. Reportedly P&T were not happy about that technique, and subsequently banned any tricks using similar methods. Maybe I have the details wrong about that, but it seems to me **Waldo** ’s explanation would violate the spirit of the competition. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079/37 "2022-08-10T20:55:34Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > I still reject the notion that Alyson was a stooge, instant or not. > > I remember a trick a few years ago where audience members read sealed “predictions” regarding a set of random circumstances, and it turns out the cards just said something like “please say the correct item,” and the volunteers went along with it. > Reportedly P&T were not happy about that technique, and subsequently banned any tricks using similar methods. I don’t remember reading any such reports, but I do remember that Penn has said multiple times on the show that stooges are not allowed. If Alyson were deceptively collaborating on this trick, that would be a complete, unannounced reversal of a longstanding and very explicit rule of the show. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-season-8/952079.md?page=1)