# Penn & Teller: Fool Us, US run on CW **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 7, 2014, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015 "2014-08-07T07:25:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/301 "2015-08-12T01:38:59Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > I was thinking along these lines - but if you watch again (in high def with the ability to freeze the video) you can see when she spreads the entire deck out on the table and when she and Jonathan fan out their half decks for the camera that there are no duplicate cards. If that’s true then she must look at the half she has and then switch it for a half that’s a duplicate for the half she doesn’t have. That means she has two half decks hidden somewhere in that sleeveless blouse. ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/302 "2015-08-12T01:41:20Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Trigg Watson, young guy using his Ipad. First trick, he makes a flower and vase appear behind his Ipad in the camera, and then pulls aside the Ipad to reveal a real flower and vase. You could catch a glimpse of the yellow flower peeking out from behind the iPad when he first pulls it out and turns it over - a bit of bad luck for him since you know right away he’s hiding something back there. ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/303 "2015-08-12T01:47:28Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > That means she has two half decks hidden somewhere in that sleeveless blouse. Pockets in the front folds? Just after fanning out her half deck she’s got her back to the audience, and the camera cuts away… ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/304 "2015-08-12T01:52:02Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > You could catch a glimpse of the yellow flower peeking out from behind the iPad when he first pulls it out and turns it over - a bit of bad luck for him since you know right away he’s hiding something back there. I know Penn says that he likes the addition of modern tech to magic but honestly the iPad tricks are too obviously a matter of videos and timing and, to me at least, seem cheesy. Making things that appear on computer screen then appear behind the pad is a clever twist, but it’s just a standard appearance (like you might do from behind a silk) with some added video trickery on the object they appear behind. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/305 "2015-08-12T01:53:18Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > Pockets in the front folds? Just after fanning out her half deck she’s got her back to the audience, and the camera cuts away… I’m sure it was something like that. I wasn’t questioning the possibility. ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/306 "2015-08-12T01:54:59Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Except, they open the box, it’s someone else in a wig, he pops up in the audience, but then he runs back on stage to reveal the handkerchief with his father and mother. Penn and Teller were apparently surprised with the parents’ reveal. I was expecting him to be in the box, the fact that it was a 3rd party and he was in the back of the theater didn’t add anything to the trick IMO…I don’t think P&T were fooled in any way but just felt like they had to give props to the TV magicians of their childhoods. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/307 "2015-08-12T02:06:09Z")
Wilson: Were there two boxes? I kind of figured the guy who came out inside a box was in a different box. They lady had a pretty quick exit from her box and the dude was already prepared in his box. The rest with the appearances were just lame. Even with my answer not being the solution, I was disappointed they said they were fooled. There is no way they were fooled. ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/308 "2015-08-12T02:07:57Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I know Penn says that he likes the addition of modern tech to magic but honestly the iPad tricks are too obviously a matter of videos and timing and, to me at least, seem cheesy. Agreed, I don’t really care for them either (and after seeing the intro video implying the guy invents and builds all kinds of cool tech/magic stuff in his workshop, I guess I was expecting something more.) ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/309 "2015-08-12T04:05:12Z")
Am I misremembering? Ignoring the spreading/shuffling/recombining of the cards, doesn’t it come down to the guy _telling her_ what his card was, and after that dealing the cards into her hand one by one until she says Stop? And then the card on top of those in her hand is the target one? I don’t see where that would require any manipulation at all, just a deck with markings on the backs. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/310 "2015-08-12T05:40:17Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Am I misremembering? Ignoring the spreading/shuffling/recombining of the cards, doesn’t it come down to the guy _telling her_ what his card was, and after that dealing the cards into her hand one by one until she says Stop? And then the card on top of those in her hand is the target one? > > I don’t see where that would require any manipulation at all, just a deck with markings on the backs. Penn said that the manipulations were obvious to him, and they seemed somewhat obvious to me also, and he also mentioned the mental part of the trick. And she agreed that she hadn’t fooled him, presumably meaning that she was doing manipulations and mental work just as he said. But yeah, why couldn’t she have done it with markings? I’d have to look at the video again. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/311 "2015-08-12T05:50:22Z")
Okay, I just looked at the segment again. While he is dealing the cards into her hand, she quite conspicuously turns her head so that she cannot see the cards. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/312 "2015-08-12T06:48:42Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I know Penn says that he likes the addition of modern tech to magic but honestly the iPad tricks are too obviously a matter of videos and timing and, to me at least, seem cheesy. Given how polite Penn has been to some of the acts on the show, I think it’s reasonable to assume that what he says and what he believes aren’t necessarily the same thing. He could be straight up lying. He could also truthfully like incorporating modern technology into magic, but be neglecting to mention that the current act’s version of doing so is still crap. But I think it’s safe to say that if you’re not impressed by something, he’s far less impressed than you. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/313 "2015-08-12T13:50:00Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Okay, I just looked at the segment again. While he is dealing the cards into her hand, she quite conspicuously turns her head so that she cannot see the cards. And we all know we can trust magicians not to peek. 😃 No, I’m sure you (and Teller) are right about how she actually did it. My point was that as an observer it was so clear to me that it COULD have been done that way that it didn’t seem in the least “magical” that she could do the trick. Like if a magician were to ‘levitate’ himself from the floor to on top of a wall 10 feet tall while hidden by a curtain … and there just happens to be a ladder leaning against the wall nearby. Even if the guy actually was levitating, the observer would just shrug. “What’s magic about that? He climbed the ladder, duh.” Specifically for this show, though, it could have been a set-up by the magician to game the challenge, to deliberately mislead P&T in their guessing: choose a trick that can be done with manipulation and a mental trick, go ahead and actually DO hinky cuts/shuffles/whatever while performing the trick – but actually read the markings from the card back. Bingo! They say you did X, you can deny it (honestly, for some versions of honestly) and you win. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/314 "2015-08-12T14:08:29Z")
Except that she was not looking at the backs of the cards as he dealt them into her hand, she was looking away, so it’s not the same as your ladder example. And really, even if she was looking, depending on marked cards would be very risky given the way the trick is done. The spectator could, deliberately or unintentionally, deal too fast or hold his hands in a way that blocks her view of the card backs, making it difficult for her to read the marks, which are small and inconspicuous (they have to be to go unnoticed). ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/315 "2015-08-12T14:51:57Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > **Irishman** is close except I don’t think she swapped anything. I think what happens is that she starts with 2 half decks, each containing the same 26 cards in the same memorized order, or possibly 2 different memorized orders. I say “memorized” but it’s more likely the order fits with some algorithm or algorithms she uses. There could be an algorithm, that’s a bit simpler than pure memorization. On the other hand, memorization works. However, like was mentioned, I studied the fanned deck - there were no repeats and no obvious pattern. Thus she would need to swap her half top have a purposely sequenced bit. > [@](#): > > When she cuts the deck the top card of the bottom half is probably a short or corner short card allowing her to cleanly seperate the two halfs in a casual seemingly random manner. The host can then of course shuffle his half all he wants since at this point the only thing that matters is the order of her half. Agreed. > [@](#): > > When the deck is put back together she does a sort of false shuffle where she doesn’t disturb the order of the ordered half and ends up with that on top. Then, once he tells her the chosen card, it’s simply a matter of using the algorithm or memorized order to tell how far down in the deck she has to go. If you watch her face and her eyes you can see there’s some mental processing going on as she counts through the deck. > > In this case it happened to be only 3 cards down so she made the remark about it being “quick but good while it lasted”. She probably has different lines memorized depending on how far down the card is. Yep. Thus Penn’s comments on her deck handling. Her false shuffle was slow and obvious if you know what to look for. > [@davidm](#): > > Regarding Greg Wilson: I don’t know the exact method or construction of his sword box, but I will say that while the audience may have been impressed by having a third person appear in the box and Wilson appearing in the audience, this actually makes the trick less impressive since there’s more time to do the switch then there would be if Wilson had ended up in the box. Yes, I spotted that, too. A second box with the guy waiting, and then you just have to get the girl out. > [@lieu](#): > > While Greg Wilson made a production of locking the sword box top with two padlocks, when they opened it afterward they lifted it straight up, indicating the back edge wasn’t even hinged. I will have to double check. > [@davidm](#): > > If that’s true then she must look at the half she has and then switch it for a half that’s a duplicate for the half she doesn’t have. That means she has two half decks hidden somewhere in that sleeveless blouse. Yep, like I said the first time. > [@zombywoof](#): > > I don’t think P&T were fooled in any way but just felt like they had to give props to the TV magicians of their childhoods. Yeah, but the show is “Fool Us”, not “Impress Us” or “Give Tribute to Pioneers”. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Am I misremembering? Ignoring the spreading/shuffling/recombining of the cards, doesn’t it come down to the guy _telling her_ what his card was, and after that dealing the cards into her hand one by one until she says Stop? And then the card on top of those in her hand is the target one? > > I don’t see where that would require any manipulation at all, just a deck with markings on the backs. That’s a possible way to do a similar trick. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Given how polite Penn has been to some of the acts on the show, I think it’s reasonable to assume that what he says and what he believes aren’t necessarily the same thing. > > He could be straight up lying. He’s so effusive with his praise, I’m beginning to doubt his sincerity. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Specifically for this show, though, it could have been a set-up by the magician to game the challenge, to deliberately mislead P&T in their guessing: choose a trick that can be done with manipulation and a mental trick, go ahead and actually DO hinky cuts/shuffles/whatever while performing the trick – but actually read the markings from the card back. Bingo! They say you did X, you can deny it (honestly, for some versions of honestly) and you win. Yes, that’s a possible way to game the setup. You fool them with your clumsy card handling, when the real method was a marked deck. I’d most magicians on the show start doing that, it will either be boring, or we will see if the duo can see through that kind of misdirect. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/316 "2015-08-12T15:37:21Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > Great news! I agree heartily with this statement. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/317 "2015-08-12T15:55:07Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > FYI: CW has ordered another season of Penn & Teller: Fool Us Don’t get me wrong, I like this version. I really do. But IMHO, it lacks “something” from the original British version. “Edgier” might be the right term. I’m not sure what it is. I don’t remember Penn fawning over the contestants like he’s doing now. I also got the impression that in the UK version, all of the performers weren’t professional magicians like these seem to be. I don’t know why that matters to me, but it does. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/318 "2015-08-12T16:09:03Z")
I could do with a few less card tricks. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/319 "2015-08-12T16:38:14Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, I like this version. I really do. But IMHO, it lacks “something” from the original British version. “Edgier” might be the right term. I’m not sure what it is. I don’t remember Penn fawning over the contestants like he’s doing now. I also got the impression that in the UK version, all of the performers weren’t professional magicians like these seem to be. I don’t know why that matters to me, but it does. It seems like a lot of the current performers are Vegas magicians. Since the show is shot in Vegas (or am I mistaken about that?) this makes sense, and explains why there are so many professionals available for the show. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/320 "2015-08-12T16:53:33Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > There could be an algorithm, that’s a bit simpler than pure memorization. On the other hand, memorization works. > > However, like was mentioned, I studied the fanned deck - there were no repeats and no obvious pattern. Thus she would need to swap her half top have a purposely sequenced bit. No _obvious_ pattern is not the same as no pattern. But since people have studied frames of the video and couldn’t find any duplicate cards then she probably did switch her half. > [@](#): > > Yes, I spotted that, too. A second box with the guy waiting, and then you just have to get the girl out. I wasn’t even thinking about a second box. My point was simply that they had all of the time before he entered the curtain to do the switch. If it had been him in the box at the end then he would have had to get in it in the short amount of time between when he last poked his head out of the curtain and the curtain was dropped. That would have been much more impressive, but perhaps undoable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015.md?page=17)