# Penn & Teller: Fool Us, US run on CW **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 7, 2014, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015 "2014-08-07T07:25:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/401 "2015-08-19T16:48:53Z")
I don’t think Simon Pegg was the reason they chose that act. Maybe they were scraping the bottom of the barrel (for something other than a card trick or big illusion) and the watch thing was the best they had, so they added Simon Pegg to try to spice it up. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/402 "2015-08-19T17:12:29Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I don’t think Simon Pegg was the reason they chose that act. Maybe they were scraping the bottom of the barrel (for something other than a card trick or big illusion) and the watch thing was the best they had, so they added Simon Pegg to try to spice it up. Yeah, it wasn’t really like Jonathan really just spontaneously decided to bring Simon Pegg up to the stage - or that Pegg really just by happenstance was sitting in the 10th row on the aisle. There have been several really hack performers on this season. The Shocker, with his one-ahead obvious yet sloppy routine was another example. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/403 "2015-08-19T18:17:26Z")
On the watch trick – we do see the watch with hands at one point, and then with none later on, and P&T’s hints didn’t seem to address that part at all. So maybe that was what the magician was basing his ‘you didn’t get it’ denial on? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/404 "2015-08-19T18:24:00Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > On the watch trick – we do see the watch with hands at one point, and then with none later on, and P&T’s hints didn’t seem to address that part at all. So maybe that was what the magician was basing his ‘you didn’t get it’ denial on? That was a ridiculously simple part of it. The guy started arguing as soon as they mentioned that the watch was rigged, so there was no need to bring it up, he wasn’t being honest with them. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/405 "2015-08-19T18:52:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Since getting to Vegas the producers don’t seem to be doing a good job. I don’t know why they are having such a hard time. There has to be more quality magicians in that area than what they are finding. > [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Maybe it’s like “American Idol” where they throw in some clunkers for comedic effect. If so, it’s not working. I don’t think so. I think they thought he’d be better. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > On the watch trick – we do see the watch with hands at one point, and then with none later on, and P&T’s hints didn’t seem to address that part at all. So maybe that was what the magician was basing his ‘you didn’t get it’ denial on? How did he remove the hands from the watch? They did mention it and he said it was a gag watch. But how does that part work? I have a stupid question. I was actually super impressed with the violin magician. I assume he forced the three specific cards on the individuals in the crowd. No biggie there. How does he make the cards rise, especially when he is not near the deck at all? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/406 "2015-08-19T19:09:03Z")
Rising card tricks generally use what’s called invisible thread. (It’s not literally invisible but it is very hard to see.) ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/407 "2015-08-19T19:31:15Z")
My take on the disappearing hands of the watch is ink that disappears when it gets warmed up. The watch hands are black until you hold them between your hands in a stupid weird way for 3 minutes then voila, now they are “gone” (or, clear.) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/408 "2015-08-19T20:03:41Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > My take on the disappearing hands of the watch is ink that disappears when it gets warmed up. The watch hands are black until you hold them between your hands in a stupid weird way for 3 minutes then voila, now they are “gone” (or, clear.) It’s more likely a thin false face with the hands on it that drops into the magicians hand leaving behind the real, and hand-less, face that was underneath it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/409 "2015-08-19T20:11:42Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Rising card tricks generally use what’s called invisible thread. (It’s not literally invisible but it is very hard to see.) Not in the case of the guy with the violin. It’s a special deck. There’s a thread, but it doesn’t have to be invisible because it’s not exposed. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/410 "2015-08-19T20:14:16Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I don’t know why they are having such a hard time. There has to be more quality magicians in that area than what they are finding. Perhaps they’re only getting the ones who aren’t working. The known quality acts they may have travel money for, but the others would be Vegas magicians who aren’t working, and maybe people willing to cover their own expenses. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/411 "2015-08-19T20:18:51Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Not in the case of the guy with the violin. It’s a special deck. There’s a thread, but it doesn’t have to be invisible because it’s not exposed. It depends on where the thread is when the cards are pushed into the deck. If it’s through a hole in the middle of the deck then maybe it wouldn’t have to be invisible, although it still would have to be relatively unnoticeable because it has to extend outside the box, unless I’m wrong about how it works. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/412 "2015-08-19T20:30:10Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > It depends on where the thread is when the cards are pushed into the deck. If it’s through a hole in the middle of the deck then maybe it wouldn’t have to be invisible, although it still would have to be relatively unnoticeable because it has to extend outside the box, unless I’m wrong about how it works. It does extend out from the middle of the deck, but only through one side so you keep it in the back away from the audience, or in this case inside the box. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/413 "2015-08-19T21:32:02Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > My take on the disappearing hands of the watch is ink that disappears when it gets warmed up. The watch hands are black until you hold them between your hands in a stupid weird way for 3 minutes then voila, now they are “gone” (or, clear.) I was thinking this too. I found this video - ad really - for the watch: [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=juI8w9ts8pU](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=juI8w9ts8pU) First, it’s even worse that the hack on the tv show just bought the gimmicked watch trick from someone. However, in this ad, he gives the impression of showing multiple different times on the watch face prior to the person adjusting the watch, and he gives the impression of changing it in sight of the person. That’s a crucial element that the guy on the show failed to do. However, in the ad, he doesn’t show the different times very well, and they all seem to be the same time, despite what he is saying. The clasped hands bit is the same, so I’m leaning towards the warmth explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/414 "2015-08-20T01:08:04Z")
Okay, I agree that Kostya Kimlat was the only one that was really interesting, and it was amazing to watch it play out right in front of Penn and Teller - especially Teller. That they didn’t see the shuffle (and it has to be the roadrunner cull, thanks for finding that), is impressive. Maybe why he needed them close, to control their viewing angle? All the shuffling was distraction. He didn’t do any card manipulation until the last pass while putting the cards back. He even kept the same card order. Okay, I couldn’t tell on Teller’s, but on Penn’s I was able to see the next several face up cards (3 or 4), and in the face up spread they were the same. I guess that’s because that one was already opposite that string. And come to think of it, there was another card missing just in front of Penn’s card - the 9 was face up, there was a face down then Penn’s, then the 5, etc. On the reveal, the card between the 9 and Penn’s was missing. That roadrunner shuffle totally explains it. Well done. I also agree this is the best way to fool them - straight up manipulation that wows them. > [@TriPolar](#): > > This was what I always hope to see on this show. P&T getting totally fooled by a masterful magician. I think they caught a lot of the manipulation but they were admitting that it was a trick they’d never seen before, and could not perform themselves. I don’t think it works that way. He didn’t do any manipulation until the final pass - everything else was straightforward, setting up possible tricks with the shuffles, but then busting them with the next shuffle. It’s all in the handling in the last pass, where he culls the face downs and flips them under the deck at the end. The fact that Teller didn’t know or think of that technique is impressive. > [@davidm](#): > > I thought it was interesting that he said that 2/3 of the contestants fool him. I have heard it said that Teller is the magician and Penn is his big loud misdirection. I think that was an exaggeration for comedic effect. A number of them do fool him but not Teller - at least he says so during his explanations. But not as many as 2/3. > [@cluck](#): > > I feel bad for the second guy. He was clearly flustered by the presence of Simon Pegg and thrown off his game. (Penn was still being mean when he said the most amazing part about the trick was the fact that Pegg was on stage.) I don’t believe he was being mean, I think he was trying to give praise to Simon Pegg. But it could come off that way - “nothing about your magic was as interesting as the accidental guest”. > [@garptravers](#): > > Regarding Jen Kramer > > [snip] The only reason she needs to take back the cards is to put in the switched half and false shuffle. Good observation on the last bit, but the rest matches what I’ve already said. > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Is it just me or was the watch guy awful? Seemed like a whole trick based around a prop watch. I mean no doubt everyone uses special gear and props but a watch that doesn’t change time when you pull the stem out? ooooh. > > If we saw the hands move while Simon was turning the stem then it would have been a completely different and completely compelling trick. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Please tell me the whole gag is not dependent on the obvious trick that the watch does not change time when you turn the knob. That’s a teenager’s routine. It appears he used some thermal disappearing ink to draw on the hands and then the watch doesn’t have any actual hands. Ergo, Simon has to hold the watch between his palms tightly to activate the color change. > [@TriPolar](#): > > The card rising guy was pretty clumsy in his act, but perhaps nervous and off his game due to a torn Achilles tendon. That video of it happening made both my legs hurt. I used to have a rising card deck, and lots of other props. They must have been magical because they’ve all disappeared. He had a little slip with the cloth over the disappearing box, but otherwise I didn’t think the handling was that clumsy, unless you just mean obvious. He used a force by some mechanism of splitting the deck at a known spot (short card, hand split), flipped the top as a distraction but the next three cards were the chosen cards. Since he knew them, the box and card reveal was cued. Knew something was up with the oversized box for the violin under the drape. Ho hum. > [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > I thought that the confetti trick was equally unimpressive. Gee, you keep going into your coat to get your wand, I wonder what that’s about. Plus, couldn’t the hat itself hold a large amount? I think he had pockets in the hat for the colored confetti. As Penn stated, the “mistake” was to dump the mixed colors. He could have just as easily stuffed them into one of the pockets. The surprise was the actual orange, but watching again, it is small enough to sit in the collapsed hat against the bottle at the beginning. Entertaining in a certain way, but not fooling at all. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > He really, really did. Perhaps even worse than that, he had the nuts to protest that Penn and Teller were fooled. Dude, _nobody_ was fooled. Well, he was arguing that they didn’t actually state the exact nature of the trick watch. Saying a rigged watch isn’t exactly illuminating. It could be rigged in a way that the hands don’t move without being rigged by not having hands at all. I was pleased the judge didn’t give in to silly wording games with what Penn said, and agreed they weren’t fooled. I think Penn could have clarified a bit more if pressed by mentioning something about heat sensitivity or even outright mentioned painted hands. But it didn’t come to that. I think it was a case of an immature magician who thought he had a technicality on Penn, kinda like one of the rounds that said “false shuffle” and got declared a Fooler. Regarding Shawn Farquar, those are really nice disappearances, but I think you nailed the techniques. Basically, he changes the technique for each video to counter claims from other videos, on the idea that he’s using the same technique every time, but he’s not. He’s changing the technique to produce the same effect. Still, beautiful until you point out the obvious - his friends are other magicians in his magician circle. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/415 "2015-08-20T01:32:24Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Still, beautiful until you point out the obvious - his friends are other magicians in his magician circle. :smack: Clearly not in any acting circles hehe ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/416 "2015-08-20T01:39:19Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > … > Regarding Shawn Farquar, those are really nice disappearances, but I think you nailed the techniques. Basically, he changes the technique for each video to counter claims from other videos, on the idea that he’s using the same technique every time, but he’s not. He’s changing the technique to produce the same effect. Still, beautiful until you point out the obvious - his friends are other magicians in his magician circle. :smack: I only saw them by following the links posted in this thread so I saw them outside of the context of what he was doing (countering claims about other videos) and it never crossed my mind that he was supposedly using the same technique. Maybe that’s why I was able to nail the techniques. Although I doubt I would have believed that they were all the same technique even if I saw them as he intended. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/417 "2015-08-20T02:07:08Z")
But he keeps saying in the videos about comments on other videos, so that’s what I’m going on. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/418 "2015-08-20T02:31:09Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Maybe I missed something, but I don’t understand how Penn (and **JKilez** ) knew how it was going to end. All I could see was that he was doing a card trick. I meant to address this. There was a lot of effort spent in putting some cards face up and some down and shuffling so they were thoroughly and randomly mixed. This means the result is going to be a magic ordering of the deck. So what could be a magical order? All facing the same direction. Except he has each select a card. So what would be the most obvious reveal for their selected cards? Reversing those two, and only those two, cards. It’s a result that’s obvious from the moment he splits the cards and starts the shuffle. They’re looking for ways each shuffle could be beat, and he keeps increasing the shuffle difficulty, less handling and less control, to the fall on the table. Then in one pass he fixes the order right under their noses, no room for deck swaps or cheats. And they can check the cards and see no missing corners or short cards or other gimmicks. It’s all pure handling and smooth to the point that from the top angle everything was masked. It was only from watching from the front when he’s starting the fan for Teller that I can see any funny business with his fingers, and it’s really minor. From the top side it’s completely masked. Thus, as was pointed out, likely the reason he was facing Penn for the latter half of the trick - better masking from Teller, and good masking to Penn. > [@davidm](#): > > It’s more likely a thin false face with the hands on it that drops into the magicians hand leaving behind the real, and hand-less, face that was underneath it. That’s a possibility, but I think the key is in how he makes Simon hold the watch between his palms in a funny grip, and do so for a lengthy time. That says to me there’s something important about putting hands tight against the face. Temperature changing ink. And then I did a slomo and pause on the close up of the face and the hands don’t look quite right. Now seeing the commercial for the watch, it does appear that the face of the watch can be rotated to set “different” times, and of course that would be independent from the stem. You have to practice rotating the stem and the face, preferrably in a way that they can’t really see the hands not turning. I did spot that while he shows different times, the angle between the hands stays the same, it’s just placement that makes the times different. Have to be careful on that, probably a strategy for picking times that work. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I was thinking this too. I found this video - ad really - for the watch: [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=juI8w9ts8pU](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=juI8w9ts8pU) > > First, it’s even worse that the hack on the tv show just bought the gimmicked watch trick from someone. However, in this ad, he gives the impression of showing multiple different times on the watch face prior to the person adjusting the watch, and he gives the impression of changing it in sight of the person. That’s a crucial element that the guy on the show failed to do. Yeah, showing different times would help the trick. Man, that’s extra amateur. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/419 "2015-08-20T02:32:07Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > But he keeps saying in the videos about comments on other videos, so that’s what I’m going on. I just took those comments as patter or maybe casual references to comments on past videos. I didn’t know that he was deliberately posting them in some order with each one supposedly being the same technique and debunking explanations of each of the previous videos. The order in which they were posted in this thread (and the order in which I viewed them) doesn’t seem to be the order in which they were intended to be viewed. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/420 "2015-08-20T02:49:19Z")
I don’t know that he is, it just comes across that way to me. I haven’t seen a list or a blog or anything, just the links you provided. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015.md?page=22)