# Penn & Teller: Fool Us, US run on CW **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 7, 2014, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015 "2014-08-07T07:25:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/741 "2015-10-09T13:44:00Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > They’ve allowed a plant before. There was a magician who had video of him (supposedly remotely) directing the trick, but he was actually in the audience as a plant with a disguise. He did a number draw that ‘randomly’ picked him as the volunteer, then revealed himself at the finale. > [@friedo](#): > > Yeah, but the fact that he revealed himself made it not really a plant. And also completely ruined the trick. Friedo has my response exactly. A very dumb trick, but hardly a plant. Still the worst trick on Fool Us. Except for that one with Simon Pegg. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/742 "2015-10-09T14:47:45Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Yeah, but the fact that he revealed himself made it not really a plant. And also completely ruined the trick. I don’t know the technical definition of a plant you’re using, but they put a person in the audience who was in on the trick, deliberately selected him with something made to appear random, and the person from the audience was instrumental to making the trick happen. To me, that’s a plant, even if it doesn’t fit a particular narrow definition that magicians use. Worse that ruining that trick, to me it damages all of the tricks that use an audience member, because it puts that seed of ‘maybe she’s in on the trick, they allowed that before’ into my head. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/743 "2015-10-09T19:37:54Z")
I still think there’s a significant difference from the magician hiding in the audience and a helper planted in the audience. I think the reason the staff would allow it is the magician reveal. But the rest of the trick was crap because of that reveal. However, a traditional plant wouldn’t pass the “sufficiently cool” muster. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2015, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/744 "2015-10-09T19:47:17Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I still think there’s a significant difference from the magician hiding in the audience and a helper planted in the audience. I think the reason the staff would allow it is the magician reveal. But the rest of the trick was crap because of that reveal. > > However, a traditional plant wouldn’t pass the “sufficiently cool” muster. Yes, the fact that he was in the trick was supposed to be part of the trick. He was part of the reveal. He didn’t just go along with the trick and play the role of the plant. I think the main trick in that routine was that he was in the trick the whole time. It was painfully obvious. So painfully obvious that it was embarrassing, but still, it was there. Plants, to me, are participants that are never revealed to be part of the trick. I believe they do not allow that kind of lame trick on Fool Us. ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/745 "2015-10-10T00:40:20Z")
If the guy had the resource of _three_(!) planted audience members I think he could/would have come up with a much more impressive trick - I agree it looked a little funny the way they all got up, but I think it’s much more likely due to something like a reshoot for some reason, or they all had to be fitted with microphones or sign waivers or something before coming on stage, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2015, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/746 "2015-10-10T02:54:57Z")
Agreed. Stand where I tell you, wear the tag I place around your neck, hold the bag that’s handed to you, and follow all my overt instructions. Because nobody but plants would get that right. I went back and looked again. The camera angle shifts between when he starts asking for assistance, and when he starts calling out the men. He’s clearly looking over at that area. The second man leans forward and then stops to adjust his tie, and the third is making eye contact with Kopf. I think making eye contact and hearing “three gentlemen” and “the one behind him” could prime an alert audience member for “I’ll be the third”. It’s possible there was an edit for forms or a reshoot of that angle to speed up getting on stage or something. I think it’s also possible it ran clean and just looks funny. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/747 "2015-10-12T17:03:56Z")
> [@numeroussyrup](#): > > Watching it again, it seems clear to me that when she is placing the bandaids on Jonathan’s hand and her head, she is just peeling off the fake layer and then discards it. Agreed. I was quite surprised to hear them say she was some kind of close up magic award winner. It was a very unimpressive trick and she was clearly fumbling with the bandaids when she put them on. > [@numeroussyrup](#): > > Overall, I think it’s a very simple trick and Penn and Teller thought it was way more complicated then it actually was. It seems a bit unfair to called P&T “fooled” just because they didn’t know exactly where the second set of pads went. They assumed they were still somehow attached to the bandaids. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/748 "2015-10-12T17:34:09Z")
> [@RedSwinglineOne](#): > > It seems a bit unfair to called P&T “fooled” just because they didn’t know exactly where the second set of pads went. They assumed they were still somehow attached to the bandaids. I don’t know what their general standard is, but in the cases where they guessed wrong P&T they proclaimed they were fooled. Earlier in the season they there was a handoff in a card trick where the card ended up on the bottom of a skateboard. They knew it was a handoff but they assumed the handoff occurred at the wrong point in the act and they proclaimed that they were fooled. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/749 "2015-10-12T21:44:54Z")
Yes. Penn and Teller thought she had ditched the pads in the wrappers on the table. It seems she did something else with them so the stuff on the table was “clean”. Ergo, Teller looked at the easy place and didn’t find them, and apparently didn’t see her ditch them. Ergo, fooled on a technicality, just like a bunch of other contestants. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/750 "2015-10-12T22:29:00Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Yes. Penn and Teller thought she had ditched the pads in the wrappers on the table. It seems she did something else with them so the stuff on the table was “clean”. Ergo, Teller looked at the easy place and didn’t find them, and apparently didn’t see her ditch them. Ergo, fooled on a technicality, just like a bunch of other contestants. All magic is a technicality, if you can’t say exactly how it is done. “It’s a trick!” is not an explanation. ---
**Author:** ![TheHYPO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@TheHYPO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheHYPO)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/751 "2015-10-21T04:11:05Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > He was trying to mystify the stuff in the envelope. He was trying to say “it’s not merely a prediction, it’s a super magical connection” or some shit. Yeah, it’s still a prediction. > > Some people need to be lead by the nose. He didn’t say that particular line in a mystical way, it was quite matter of fact if I recall correctly - “you probably expect this to be a prediction like most tricks, but actually it’s not.” Except yes it is… ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/752 "2015-10-22T03:24:26Z")
When he hands it over to Penn, he says it’s a random bit of trivia. When he gets to the envelope, he says > [@](#): > > Both Penn and Teller are likely under the impression that inside of that envelope is a prediction. There is not, so technically, I have already fooled them. Inside that envelope is a piece of information that is a random bit of trivia to everybody in this room but two people, and only one of them will speak to it. He goes on to have Penn explain the MRF link, and then state the date. Then he explains for the slow kids how the date on the paper matches the “random” numbers. So yes, it serves as a prediction. To my ear, he’s wrapping the whole thing in his mystical “randomness” schtick, but on that point he just flatly states it isn’t a prediction, and then turns around and uses it as one. I guess in one way it isn’t a prediction. It’s simply a restatement of the foregone conclusion of the number he picked ahead of time. So technically he’s right. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/753 "2015-10-22T14:33:21Z")
Is it done for the season? Hulu doesn’t have any episodes posted anymore and I know we were getting close to the end ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/754 "2015-10-22T14:37:26Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Is it done for the season? Hulu doesn’t have any episodes posted anymore and I know we were getting close to the end The season is over. I think it’s been renewed for next year. ---
**Author:** ![Janikphoto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ea5d25/32.png) [@Janikphoto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janikphoto)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/755 "2015-10-23T03:56:54Z")
I know this episode is three or so episodes old now, but after spending several days catching up on old episodes, this one was still pretty knew to us. I’ve enjoyed reading the way you all dissect the acts and figure them out. But, the episode with the magnifying glass and the pen… You all missed the meaning of the magnifying glass, IMO. Penn keeps clicking it over and over. He’s not hinting at the magnifier, but the “clicker”. It’s a sign that someone is planted nearby to do the book database search and then send the correct numbers to the guy writing them on the page. You can tell the only thing he writes are those numbers… the word dictionary was already on the page. Look how he holds the page in relation to how he writes. All he has to do is jot down the digits he receives from his “clicker”. That same “clicker” receives the number from the digital pen. Oh, and thank you for solving some of these acts that we simply couldn’t! ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/756 "2015-10-24T04:51:35Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > IIRC the show does not allow audience plants. But I suspect the producers have cleared audience volunteers ahead of time (and had them sign appearance waivers) so they knew they were going to be “randomly” picked. [Simon Pierro’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXRLf1VqpLg) trick relied on plants. The two women he took the photograph with in the audience are obvious plants since the photo that comes out of the printer has different people in the background than the shot from the audience. But I agree the latest trick obviously wasn’t plants. If he were able to use plants, he would just have the woman be a plant and then the trick would be trivial. No need for any of the guys to be plants. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2015, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/757 "2015-10-24T05:00:29Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > [Simon Pierro’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXRLf1VqpLg) trick relied on plants. The two women he took the photograph with in the audience are obvious plants since the photo that comes out of the printer has different people in the background than the shot from the audience. > > But I agree the latest trick obviously wasn’t plants. If he were able to use plants, he would just have the woman be a plant and then the trick would be trivial. No need for any of the guys to be plants. That means the picture was taken before hand, the women didn’t have to be in on it. His image was stuck in afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Janikphoto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ea5d25/32.png) [@Janikphoto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Janikphoto)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/758 "2015-10-29T02:26:30Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > I’m also not convinced there weren’t plants involved. Three guys sitting one behind the other. At least one and maybe two looked like they were there solo. The third one started to get up before the second one was called. No hesitation of the “is he pointing at me?” and then the woman was the one right next to the first guy. A group of “strangers” in a small area of adjoining seats… kind of like if a performer got a block of tickets to use for “friends and family.” > > I have been called up before and there was always the “me?.. yes you… is he still talking to me or is he pointing to someone behind me?” moment involved. > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > This why they should always let Penn pick the audience participants. At least one magician has done this. > [@Stephe96](#): > > I noticed this too, and it certainly looked strange, but it’s possible it was due to editing rather than anything nefarious on the part of the magician. It’s not unusual for these shows to do ‘retakes’ of little things like that if the original take was messy or too time-consuming. There might have been a lot of ‘Who, me?’ confusion among the volunteers that simply was taking too long, so the producers decided to do another take where the the guys were instructed to just get up and go onstage when called upon. > > Again, just a guess. > [@TriPolar](#): > > Ok guys, what would the plants do in this trick? The audience members don’t do anything affecting the outcome except for the one that picks the bags, and we’ve already discussed the ways that he can tell which bag was picked. There’s just no need for a plant. > [@Dingbang](#): > > I agree that the thumper or something like that is the simpler explanation. But I still thought their reaction was quite unusual. > > And if they really do retakes of things that happen right in the middle of a trick being performed, then wow, that throws the whole show into question. Cutting to different camera angles is bad enough, but I get why that’s necessary for TV. Faking a part of the trick (and picking the audience participant most certainly is part of the trick) makes it pointless to watch. Might as well be watching a David Blaine or Criss Angel TV show. Yes, Penn was referring to a signal from a thumper. They pick the random audience members during the commercial or before the show. The people on stage were not signaling the magician. He had a thumper in the audience who could tell him which bag was being touched. ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@Dingbang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/759 "2015-10-29T02:35:25Z")
> [@Janikphoto](#): > > They pick the random audience members during the commercial or before the show. Do you know this somehow or you’re just theorizing? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015/760 "2015-10-29T17:10:44Z")
> [@Janikphoto](#): > > He had a thumper in the audience who could tell him which bag was being touched. He didn’t need anyone in the audience. They make electronic RFID devices that will send a signal to a device he can wear/carry in a pocket. He puts a tag in each bag that signals differently. The lady picks up the red bag, he gets a buzzzzz, and knows it’s red. She picks up green, he gets bzz bzz bzz and knows green. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-teller-fool-us-us-run-on-cw/695015.md?page=39)