Just wanted to stand and be counted as a big fan of Penn & Teller’s Bullshit! While I haven’t caught them in any mistakes, I do recognize that they will go for the most “television-friendly” extreme images out there. On the other hand, they will also (usually in a voiceover) give a fair presentation of what their target’s views are, so IME it’s not as if they’re trying to be intentionally deceptive.
I’ll forgive them a little visual extremity in return for having them on our side in the War Against Ignorance.
I love this show. I have to say that the PETA episode was one of the best that they have ever done. They really ripped into PETA and what they support. Yes, they were biased as meat-eaters but they did a really good job about showing the PETA people as hypocrites. (PETA has a freezer for euthanization of animals which they are against, they are against animal medical research and using things that stem from it yet one of the VPs is diabetic and insulin comes from medical research. She justified that one by saying her life was worth it. Not hypocritical. Nope.) I’m all for animal rights, but comparing animals to slaves and wanting total liberation? Are they really prepared to live and deal with all the wild animals running around?
The best clip on that show was one of the ALF supporters talking at a high school and comparing himself to Jesus, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King, Jr., all supporters of non-violence means of getting their points across. The ALF is a terrorist group that firebombs animal labs and such. Yeah, great comparison there.
The safety hysteria episode made me giggle when the owner of the company that makes some of the products was having trouble using them! Hee!
I think it’s a great show. And remeber that the girl they were talking to for the environmental episode was “hand picked” by the group they asked to talk to. Most of that episode was spent criticizing those who went to the protests but really had no idea what they were supporting.
Sometimes I think of it as “Penn & Teller’s Bullshit, brought to you by the Cato Institute!” but I still like the show a lot.
I think while it does a pretty good job of pointing out bullshit, it also is itself an exercise in spotting bullshit. I can picture watching it with my daughter and discussing things like editing interviews, choosing the wackiest crackpots, and interviewing “experts” who don’t have any credentials in the area in question.
You must have been distracted, or just got it into your head early on that they hated all chiropractors, so you selectively perceived the episode. Their designated reasonable expert on chiropractic frauds was a chiropractor. The mainstream kind who treats back injuries and such. He outlined how to spot a legitimate practitioner versus a quack.
IIRC, the clueless girl in the environmental show was actually the designated spokesperson for one of the less-well-known groups that organized that rally (some save the rainforest outfit, I think). They did indeed say, “Gee, it seems like we’re being jerks, but this is the person the organization offered as their official spokesperson!” (paraphrasing).
Good lordy, that is SO pathetic. Makes me wonder what the heck kind of organization would choose such a person. In a non-SDMB conversation I had about this episode, I recall some speculation about “maybe the clueless girl was a representative of a group that specializes in large demonstrations, etc. and offers their services to activist groups, therefore she wouldn’t necessarily know that much about the actual cause.” But it sounds like that’s not the case. How embarrassing, I wonder if she was humiliated after the show aired.
Maybe this organization was smart enough not to fret over the matter. If the girl was going to be interviewed by a a sympathetic press, her subpar knowledge wouldn’t be an issue, and if she were interviewed by a more antagonistic press it doesn’t matter if she sounds stupid because it won’t dent their fanatical support base. And the inteviewer could have thrown any number of questions at her until she misses one, and that’s the one they show.
I can’t remember, was the actual name of the organization named once, twice, at all? If they even thought she would hold up surely they would have made sure it was. Maybe the name mention/nonmention was part of the deal.
I just viewed the episode and they did in fact name the group several times. It looks like she was a lakey they assigned to take the camera people around. She was a ditz. Good show.
My favorite moments (and the ones best at exposing intentional Bullshit):
*the three Feng Shui experts paid to redecorate the same home (each came up with a totally different arrangement of furniture using the “science” of Feng Shui)
*the debunking of hypnotists who enable people to “relive” past lives and alien abductions (no charge, but a suggested donation of $90 per hour)
*the opening of the “Creationism” episode (Penn demonstrates the view of Darwin by reciting a long eloquent quote from The Origin of Species, Teller represents the Creationist p.o.v. by hitting him with a Bible), but I thought they could have grilled the Fundies a bit more and should have gone more into the scientific definition of Theory (i.e. it’s not the same as saying “it’s a theory that the Masons, Mafia & Mormons killed JFK”). (The scariest part of that episode were the teachers who were in favor of teaching creationi…uh…Intelligent Design Theory.)
Great show! I have only been able to check out episode 1 on DVD, but I am sure I’ll see all of them. I particularly liked the way they exposed the hypocrisy of Smoking Nazis and their disinformation campaign based on a “cooked” EPA report from the early 90’s.
Smokers Unite! (Cough! Cough!)
Am I the only person who misses the staged skits? Like the Designer Water Restaurant, or the mall “doctor” who offered to give people free magnetic-theraphy sessions?
And in the case of fairness, I don’t mind when Penn & Teller’s Bullshit! debunks something I thought was true, such as the second-hand smoke stuff. Fighting ignorance requires releasing your preconceived notions…
Am I allowed to quietly mention that I was interviewed for this show? I don’t know if they’ll use any of my interview, or, if they do, when it will be broadcast, but the interview was for the second series which I believe is just being broadcast now. I don’t think Showtime would want me to say what I was being interviewed about, but I can say I thought it was a very funny subject and I can’t wait to see what P&T do with it.
Yet more proof that when there is ignorance to be fought, they can’t get by without inviting the SDMB (or a Charter Member thereof) to participate!
Sadly, the show doesn’t air over here (UK) on normal telly, so I can only get to see it on DVD.
The OP refers to the show as “Penn & Teller’s Bullshit!” The actual title is “Penn & Teller: Bullshit!”, but I think the OP’s phrasing might more accurately describe the program. Much like Matt Stone and Trey Parker, they seem to me more interested in promoting capital “L” Libertarian ideology than honestly appraising their subjects. Their ideological inclinations are generaly not apparent (or important) on apolitical subjects like feng shui or communication with the dead. Their attempt to portray the environmental movement (a favorite Libertarian bugaboo) as mostly a collection of ill-informed kooks exposed their fundamental intellectual dishonesty. No mention was made of legitimate concerns about global warming or water table pollution, or that these concerns are often raised by scientists of impeccable credentials; it was just “set up the straw men and turn on the wind machine!”
P&T have never hid their political beliefs. They regularly describe themselves as libertarian atheists. That said, the episode was about “environmental hysteria,” not reputable environmentalism, which, of course, they support.
Well, I think that some think that their use of Bjorn Lomberg shows that they were not at all interested in “reputable” environmentalism, thus causing the opinion you were responding to.
They did the same thing as they did with chiropractics, they took on a part of it, not the whole thing, as Freido mentioned
Did anyone catch the Soutpark reference? When finishing up on John Edwards, Penn summed him up (with a wry smile) as the Biggest Douche in the Universe.
I just watched DVD 1 of the first series, and got a lot of laughs. I’m solidly on P&T’s side on most things, but having said that I can’t say they achieve that much higher a standard than those they lampoon.
The psychics, extreme chiropractors, and UFO nuts give their anectodal evidence - P&T give theirs. In terms of point/counterpoint I call it a draw.
However, P&T are not the ones claiming to converse with the dead or convince people that Armageddon is iminent. As such, they win big time. Add to that the fact that they’re funny as hell and it’s no contest. I nearly pissed myself in the “baby bullshit” episode when they got all the new fathers to put on diapers (it would also have been really ironic if I HAD actually pissed myself).
I found myself comparing the show to Michael Moore’s “Bowling for Columbine”. Very entertaining, asked some good questions, but didn’t really answer any. Hell of a funny show, and I can’t wait for the next two DVD’s.
I’m not sure that’s inappropriate. As old Ben once said, “You cannot reason a man out of a position which he did not reason himself into.”. Many folks have tried using reason to debunk the various forms of, well, bunk, to the extent that I suspect anyone who’s going to be convinced in that way already has been. What remains are those whom will only be swayed by a less rigorous approach, and if P&T can fill that niche, so much the better.
By the way, ianzin, your sig has been driving me crazy for some time now. I gather that it’s one of those things which makes sense when you say it aloud, but I can’t quite get it to work. Help, please?
If anyone’s vaguely interested, when the shows first came out, I posted an extensive review of the “Alternative Medicine” show here. The review itself is fairly boring, but the comments are priiiiiiceless. For one thing, the reflexologist that was roundly spanked on the show left a series of comments (woo! I’m famous!) detailing the “scientific” basis of reflexology - a hearty dose of snake oil with a generous dollop of meaningless jargon and obfuscation. I argued with him for a bit, but quickly realized that it was going to be like arguing with a lead sinker.
Also, one of the rabid SOB’s posted the letter that the American Chiropractic Institute sent to Showtime after the show aired. They missed the point almost completely, the putzes.
