# Penn & Teller's Bullshit series...is bullshit? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 28, 2006, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534 "2006-08-28T15:51:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534/101 "2006-08-31T06:35:28Z")
I don’t understand how this series, with lots of nudity, genetalia close ups etc is shown on US TV. The same country that freaked out when Janet Jackson showed her nipple covered breasts on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534/102 "2006-08-31T06:55:09Z")
[QUOTE=antechinus] I don’t understand how this series, with lots of nudity, genetalia close ups etc is shown on US TV. The same country that freaked out when Janet Jackson showed her nipple covered breasts on TV. [/QUOTE] It’s on cable, where the FCC’s rules don’t apply. More specifically, it’s on Showtime, a premium channel like HBO, whose subscribers pay a monthly fee with the knowledge and expectation that the channel’s programming won’t be censored (or interrupted by commercials). ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534/103 "2006-08-31T14:33:27Z")
[QUOTE=Mr2001] It’s on cable, where the FCC’s rules don’t apply. More specifically, it’s on Showtime, a premium channel like HBO, whose subscribers pay a monthly fee with the knowledge and expectation that the channel’s programming won’t be censored (or interrupted by commercials). [/QUOTE] You mean “pay a monthly fee with the knowledge and expectation that the channel’s programming will include nudity and genitalia,” right? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534/104 "2006-08-31T16:48:44Z")
[QUOTE=saoirse] You mean “pay a monthly fee with the knowledge and expectation that the channel’s programming will include nudity and genitalia,” right? [/QUOTE] What’s the difference? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534/105 "2006-08-31T20:38:25Z")
Basically, shows broadcast by antenna and “basic cable” channels are subject to FCC rules. Premium channels are not. For example, in my area basic cable is around $50 a month, but each of the premium channel blocks (HBO, Showtime, Cinemax), is another $10 a month. A block of HBO or Showtime channels is not worth $120 a year to me, even though they have some good programs. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534/106 "2006-08-31T23:52:56Z")
[QUOTE=control-z] Basically, shows broadcast by antenna and “basic cable” channels are subject to FCC rules. Premium channels are not. [/quote] Even basic cable isn’t subject to FCC rules, AFAIK. Basic cable channels tend to censor themselves, but that’s just to appease advertisers. There’s plenty of swearing on FX (_It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia_ comes to mind) and Comedy Central (the “secret stash” at night is full of uncensored stand-up and movies, and of course there’s [that South Park episode](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Hits_The_Fan)). ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534/107 "2006-09-01T02:52:17Z")
[QUOTE=Mr2001] Even basic cable isn’t subject to FCC rules, AFAIK. Basic cable channels tend to censor themselves, but that’s just to appease advertisers. There’s plenty of swearing on FX (_It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia_ comes to mind) and Comedy Central (the “secret stash” at night is full of uncensored stand-up and movies, and of course there’s [that South Park episode](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Hits_The_Fan)). [/QUOTE] This matches my understanding. As it’s been explained to me, the Constitutional basis for restrictions on broadcasts is that the airwaves are public property, which gives the government a rational interest in regulating them. That justification doesn’t apply to cable, obviously, which is why you can see that South Park episode and Comedy Central doesn’t have to pay fines. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534/108 "2006-09-01T03:03:40Z")
Theoretically, cable could be censored for obscene content, but I’m sure there’s enough in any given show that is educational or artistic and doesn’t solely appeal to the prurient interest so that no one will bother. I had to pause (literally) while we were watching \*Blade: The Series \* on Spike TV, to digest the fact that characters were frequently saying “shit.” ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534/109 "2006-09-01T05:52:58Z")
[QUOTE=Mr2001] It’s on cable, where the FCC’s rules don’t apply. More specifically, it’s on Showtime, a premium channel like HBO, whose subscribers pay a monthly fee with the knowledge and expectation that the channel’s programming won’t be censored (or interrupted by commercials). [/QUOTE] They don’t apply at all? Aren’t there restrictions on showing hard-core pornography (e.g. penetration)? Or perhaps these aren’t FCC restrictions, but something else – like inter-state commerce restrictions? Sorry for the hijack… ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534/110 "2006-09-01T06:10:01Z")
[QUOTE=CaveMike] They don’t apply at all? Aren’t there restrictions on showing hard-core pornography (e.g. penetration)? Or perhaps these aren’t FCC restrictions, but something else – like inter-state commerce restrictions? Sorry for the hijack… [/QUOTE] I’m not positive, but I think hardcore porn counts as “obscenity”, which makes it not protected speech. So that can be freely regulated, and I suppose it probably is. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2006, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534/111 "2006-09-01T12:08:22Z")
[Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_v._California) has a good rundown of the controlling case on obscenity: > [@](#): > > The question that the court had to decide was, is the sale and distribution of obscene materials by mail protected under the First Amendment’s freedom of speech guarantee? The Court ruled that it was not. It indicated that “obscene material is not protected by the First Amendment”, thereby reaffirming part of Roth. > > However, the Court acknowledged “the inherent dangers of undertaking to regulate any form of expression,” and said that “State statutes designed to regulate obscene materials must be carefully limited.” The Court, in an attempt to set such limits devised a set of three criteria which must be met in order for a work to be legitimately subject to state regulation: > > 1. the average person, applying contemporary community standards (not national standards, as some prior tests required), must find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest; > 2. the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions specifically defined by applicable state law; and > 3. the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value. This is why porn videos have fine print on the package stating they have serious literary, artistic, and scientific value, and are not meant to appeal to the prurient interest. This is the only known instance of the porn industry actually \*covering \* an ass. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penn-tellers-bullshit-series-is-bullshit/370534.md?page=5)