# Pennsylvania college cancels play after author objects to white actors **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138 "2015-11-21T01:03:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/141 "2015-11-23T20:22:23Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It does not look like she was trying to pull shenanigans. This is a small time college performing a play by a small time writer. It’s not surprising to me that not all the Is were dotted and Ts crossed. I understand why you would think that, but it really is pretty surprising. The rules in theater are pretty clear and easy to follow with 100+ years of precident. You don’t become a college professor / director, even at a small college, unless you have been around the block a few times. She knew how to do this and had likely done it a lot before, and if she hadn’t there were people in her department who had. The small public high school I taught at, producing an equally obscure play, managed to get everything done correctly, and the department faculty was me and my supervisor. I agree the students are the ones being unfairly punished. But I disagree that Suh is to blame. The director set them up to fail right from the start. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/142 "2015-11-23T20:23:46Z")
> [@](#): > > In an interview Thursday, Ms. Harrington-Wymer saw things differently. > > “My family, we have seen our fair share of discrimination, and it hurts just as much this time as it does any other time,’’ she said. “When you discriminate against anyone, it’s the same.” > > She broke down crying Tuesday evening upon learning that the play, set to open Wednesday, had been canceled and later called her parents. “They were very sad for me. They kept saying, ‘What can we do? There has to be a loophole.’ ” She told them there was not. _snip_ > [@](#): > > Ms. Harrington-Wymer said the chosen role for her capstone project — that of slave girl Mahari — was supposed to force her outside her comfort zone, and it required laborious research that filled a binder, a presentation and more than a month of six-night-a-week rehearsals with the cast and crew. > > Clarion junior Logan Honsaker, 21, a white cast member, struggled Thursday to express his emotions. He was to play Sushil, a teenage Maharaja and punk rocker. > > “[Mr. Suh] said he saw a picture … all he saw was the color of my skin,” said Mr. Honsaker, an acting major from Bainbridge, Ohio. “All he knew was our race, and he said no.” _snip_ > [@](#): > > Bob Levy, chairman of the university’s Visual and Performing Arts Department, said no Asians auditioned, and since they represent under 1 percent of Clarion’s enrollment, he likely would have honored Mr. Suh’s casting wishes had they been communicated earlier by choosing another production. He said “Jesus in India” could conceivably be resurrected, though he added he holds out little hope Mr. Suh will reconsider. “I’m so numb about this right now.” > **[Clarion University actors stunned over cancellation of 'Jesus in India'](https://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2015/11/13/Student-actors-at-Clarion-stunned-that-show-won-t-go-on/stories/201511130221)** > > Playwright Lloyd Suh won’t allow his play to be performed because the actors aren’t Asian. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/143 "2015-11-23T20:29:13Z")
It is a shame that the director did not apply herself as diligently as some of those student actors. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/144 "2015-11-23T20:32:52Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I understand why you would think that, but it really is pretty surprising. The rules in theater are pretty clear and easy to follow with 100+ years of precident. You don’t become a college professor / director, even at a small college, unless you have been around the block a few times. She knew how to do this and had likely done it a lot before, and if she hadn’t there were people in her department who had. > > The small public high school I taught at, producing an equally obscure play, managed to get everything done correctly, and the department faculty was me and my supervisor. > > I agree the students are the ones being unfairly punished. But I disagree that Suh is to blame. The director set them up to fail right from the start. One more quote from the article: > [@](#): > > In turn, Clarion officials said the contract for performance rights did not specify ethnically appropriate casting nor was it raised until the final weeks before the planned opening. So it’s not clear what agreement did/did not exist. However, if you send me a contract, I send you a check, and you cash that check, then that’s a legally binding contract. The fact that the contract is not “fully executed”, whatever that means, is irrelevant. And I’d add that the onus is on Suh and Suh’s agent here. If you have an unusual and extreme stance then it’s beholden to you to clearly communicate that. Something it doesn’t sound like they ever did. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/145 "2015-11-23T20:41:36Z")
> [@treis](#): > > However, if you send me a contract, I send you a check, and you cash that check, then that’s a legally binding contract. The fact that the contract is not “fully executed”, whatever that means, is irrelevant. To you perhaps, but not to the courts. Cashing the check does not count as accepting the contract. Signing the contract counts as accepting the contract. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/146 "2015-11-23T20:52:38Z")
Finding myself in full agreement with Grumman is rare. However, under these very specific circumstances (i.e., casting of a visual production) I do not think that requiring actors of a particular ethnicity is racist or discriminatory. > [@treis](#): > > So it’s not clear what agreement did/did not exist. However, if you send me a contract, I send you a check, and you cash that check, then that’s a legally binding contract. The fact that the contract is not “fully executed”, whatever that means, is irrelevant. That is an oversimplification. Whether acceptance of payment constitutes an acceptance sufficient to create a binding obligation depends on the law of the jurisdiction, the nature of the contract, and its terms. ETA: **Inner Stickler** ’s rebuttal is also an oversimplification. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/147 "2015-11-23T21:01:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That is an oversimplification. Whether acceptance of payment constitutes an acceptance sufficient to create a binding obligation depends on the law of the jurisdiction, the nature of the contract, and its terms. > > ETA: **Inner Stickler** ’s rebuttal is also an oversimplification. I agree that it is an oversimplification and I’d amend my statement to say “probably legally binding”. The point is relying on the fact that there wasn’t a “fully executed contract” is very thin. There certainly was some sort of agreement and Suh or his agent had ample time to raise their objections. They apparently never did until two weeks before the play was scheduled to start. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/148 "2015-11-23T21:03:38Z")
When it comes to procuring rights for play performances which is the type of contract under discussion in this thread, my oversimplification reflects reality more accurately than Treis’s. Checks are often sent before the agreement is finalized and if the agreement falls through for some reason, the agent simply returns the money. For the school to assume that because their check was cashed, they had carte blanche to change the play is unusual to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/149 "2015-11-23T21:06:23Z")
> [@treis](#): > > There certainly was some sort of agreement and Suh or his agent had ample time to raise their objections. The school never finalized the license agreement with Suh, so no, they had no legal right to perform the play regardless of Suh’s wishes or objections. It sucks and I feel for the actors but the school and the director are at fault. No one else. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/150 "2015-11-23T21:08:18Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Suh or his agent had ample time to raise their objections. They apparently never did until two weeks before the play was scheduled to start. Suh says he raised the issue in May, and that the director “forgot” until November. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/151 "2015-11-23T21:17:01Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > In the same Facebook post were Suh made the statement quoted above, he said that in his communication with Clarion he told the director “if their intention was a full production with a public audience, I asked specifically whether they would be able to honor the general ethnicity of the characters.” > > I do not think it is fair or accurate to interpret this as meaning that Suh only objected to _white_ actors being cast in these roles. What is the “general ethnicity” and where is it defined? Many northern Indians, e.g., are light-skinned and would be classed as Caucasian, at least according to some schemes. Most southern Indians have darker skin. Are they equally acceptable to Suh, or do you have to be “this dark” to qualify? How about somebody who is racially Anglo-Indian but was raised in a traditional Hindu household? How about that same Anglo-Indian when raised in a stereotypically English household? When the [Magic Theatre in San Francisco staged Jesus in India](http://magictheatre.org/about/past-productions/jesus-in-india), Jomar Tagatac was apparently sufficiently ethnic to satisfy Suh, but Tagatac is a Filipino surname, and I know of no definition of South Asia that includes the Philippines. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/152 "2015-11-23T21:17:51Z")
> [@treis](#): > > There certainly was some sort of agreement and Suh or his agent had ample time to raise their objections. The only agreement that certainly existed was that the school was allowed to perform the play _in a classroom_. It is certainly a matter of dispute whether any public performance agreement existed. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/153 "2015-11-23T21:30:22Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Suh says he raised the issue in May, and that the director “forgot” until November. And the director says: > [@](#): > > Ms. Michel said the playwright’s agent, on Mr. Suh’s behalf, inquired about the cast makeup last spring, but the agent did not specify an Asian preference and was told casting had not occurred. Mr. Suh subsequently was unavailable to discuss the production, she said. Ms. Michel and Mr. Levy said they were unaware of any need to be racially specific, and that Mr. Suh himself has spoken of the play’s “universality.” > **[Clarion University forced to cancel play over actors’ race](https://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2015/11/12/Clarion-University-forced-to-cancel-production-over-actors-race/stories/201511120096)** > > Student actors had rehearsed for weeks for a production of  “Jesus in India” with Caucasians playing the parts of Indian characters.  So, no the director did not “forget”. She answered the question at the time with the information she had. Suh had nearly a year to say “don’t do this play if you cast white actors in these roles”. He never did. He had the opportunity to be involved with the production. He declined. He had an opportunity to find a reasonable solution to the problem. He didn’t want to. All of that makes him a total asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/154 "2015-11-23T21:46:49Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > What is the “general ethnicity” and where is it defined? I do not have any special knowledge of Suh’s views on this matter or what it might say in the performance license for this play. I was responding to your claim that he would be fine with actors of any non-white race – African, Native American, etc. – playing his Indian characters when this is not what he said in what AFAIK is his only public statement on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/155 "2015-11-23T21:52:29Z")
Here’s some more details: > [@](#): > > It’s important to know that the planned production of Jesus in India at Clarion transformed the play, which had a few songs, into a full-blown musical. With permission from the playwright,\*\* Michel commissioned an original score which ran to 21 songs and underscoring. The playwright and his agent approved the composer, but for this one production, did not seek approval over the material itself.\*\* However, that did not extend to other approvals, for which the contract noted that the playwright’s approval was required. > > **Beth Blickers, Suh’s agent, commented that while she had inquired about the racial casting early on, and was told it was too early to know, but there was considerable communication about the new score.** > > “I think the music change is the key factor,” said Blickers. “That’s the thing they understood. The issue about ethnicity, they were reasonably oblivious to. They acknowledged that I asked and they belatedly said it wasn’t cast yet and then they forgot.” > > \*\*Michel said that she had asked several times to confer with Suh, but was told he was unavailable. \*\*She said, “I believe that a dialogue early on, it would have come clear what his priorities were, that I wasn’t seeing things the way he was. I don’t disagree with his right to feel the way he does about his work. I just wish I had known, so that either we could have had a meeting of the minds or I wouldn’t have invested my time and my students in this venture.” Blickers said that Suh was wrapped up in other productions and family issues and didn’t have the time to visit Clarion or consult with them. > > There has also been considerable discussion online over the timing of Suh’s letter, which he addresses in his statement. \*\*Michel says that it is her understanding that the contract was in force as soon as the university signed it and sent a $500 payment, and that since the check was cashed, all was in place. Blickers says that the contract was never received and that while the $500 check was cashed (and is now being returned), the contract was never signed by the playwright, and therefore the contract was not in force. \*\* Suh asserts that the first time he realized the play was going into production was via a posting of rehearsal photos on Facebook. [http://www.hesherman.com/2015/11/13/erasing-race-on-stage-at-clarion-university/](http://www.hesherman.com/2015/11/13/erasing-race-on-stage-at-clarion-university/) It sounds like there was plenty of communication between the university and plenty of opportunity for Suh to communicate his no whites policy. The fact that he and/or his agent didn’t rests solely on Suh and his agent. As for the licensing aspect, the university received a contract, signed it, sent payment, and that payment was received. From a moral standpoint, they did everything correct. From a legal aspect, they have an almost air tight case. The contract constitutes an offer, the university signing it counts as acceptance, and the check was cashed, so the consideration requirement is met. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/156 "2015-11-23T21:53:19Z")
> [@treis](#): > > So, no the director did not “forget”. She answered the question at the time with the information she had. Suh had nearly a year to say “don’t do this play if you cast white actors in these roles”. He never did. He had the opportunity to be involved with the production. He declined. He had an opportunity to find a reasonable solution to the problem. He didn’t want to. All of that makes him a total asshole. From the author’s post on Facebook: > [@](#): > > I didn’t hear anything again until late May, when I was informed they were experimenting with the piece as a musical. It is highly atypical to do such work without direct collaboration from the author, so I asked for more information. In particular, if their exploration was simply for private, in-class use, I was happy to let them do whatever they desired. Although I could not participate directly, I was certainly curious what they might discover. However, if their intention was a full production with a public audience, I asked specifically whether they would be able to honor the general ethnicity of the characters. > > I did not hear anything else from anyone at Clarion again until October 30, well into the rehearsal process. > > I was not informed that a production was taking place. > > I was not informed about any casting activities. > > I was not informed about any license agreement granting rights to perform the play. It has since been confirmed to me that while negotiations towards an agreement did occur through my agent, no agreement was ever executed, meaning Clarion’s right to perform the play was, in fact, never granted. > > … > > Her response on November 2 acknowledged receipt of our previous question on casting, but in her words: > > “When you asked, I hadn’t cast the show, and then I forgot.” So he told her, “Sure, go ahead and use it in the classroom, but if you want to perform it publicly, you need to honor the ethnicity of the characters.” He then heard nothing for 5 months, only to discover that she’d gone ahead a put together a public performance that he knew nothing about and was contrary to his wishes. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/157 "2015-11-23T22:03:33Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > From the author’s post on Facebook: > > So he told her, “Sure, go ahead and use it in the classroom, but if you want to perform it publicly, you need to honor the ethnicity of the characters.” He then heard nothing for 5 months, only to discover that she’d gone ahead a put together a public performance that he knew nothing about and was contrary to his wishes. No, he absolutely did not say that. He, and I quote, “asked specifically whether they would be able to honor the general ethnicity of the characters”. Asking if you can do something is totally different from telling someone they have to do something. Again, this situation could have easily been avoided: Suh: Can you honor the ethnicity of the characters? Michel: We haven’t done casting yet. Suh: Ok, please be aware that these characters can’t be white. Situation avoided. The fact that Suh did not express his wishes, despite ample opportunity, until just before performance puts the responsibility for the situation entirely on him. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/158 "2015-11-23T22:04:20Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It does not look like she was trying to pull shenanigans. This is a small time college performing a play by a small time writer. It’s not surprising to me that not all the Is were dotted and Ts crossed. It absolutely looks like she’s trying to pull shenanigans. The school has a theater department. They produce several shows/year and are quite familiar with the process of obtaining rights and making sure that all of the parts of the contract are met. If it were a brand new company putting on a show for the very first time that had never dealt with rightsholders before, there might be an excuse. But she knew better and the institution definitely knew better. (Junior highs and high schools know better; a college level program that’s purporting to put theater professionals out in the world doesn’t have a leg to stand on.) She was hoping not to get caught and/or thinking that if she got far enough into the process, the playwright might change his mind and she’d get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/159 "2015-11-23T22:19:17Z")
> [@treis](#): > > As for the licensing aspect, the university received a contract, signed it, sent payment, and that payment was received. To be clear, you are saying the school signed a contract, written by Suh’s agent, which did not make any stipulations as to casting? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138/160 "2015-11-23T22:35:00Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > To be clear, you are saying the school signed a contract, written by Suh’s agent, which did not make any stipulations as to casting? I am saying that the many posters/internet people blaming Clarion are incorrect. Clarion made a good faith effort to respect Suh’s wishes. They signed and a contract and paid him. They received his approval to modify it to a musical and he approved the composer. They invited him to participate in the production, and he declined. I can’t find any fault with their behavior. Whether or not Suh had the legal right to stop the production is immaterial. The point is that he is an asshole because he waited until just before the performance started to raise his objections. He is a total asshole because his objection is because some actors have the wrong color skin. He is a complete asshole because he rejected reasonable solutions to the situation. Preferring instead to throw away a great deal of other people’s efforts. The point is that he’s an asshole. I don’t care if he is an asshole acting within his legal rights or outside his legal rights. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-college-cancels-play-after-author-objects-to-white-actors/738138.md?page=9)