# Pennsylvania Primary - Let's get this party started! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 22, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461 "2008-04-22T21:49:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/41 "2008-04-23T01:37:10Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Keep 'em coming, dude! Is this a joke thread? I only ask because I’m laughing so hard. [/QUOTE] Be careful that you don’t laugh so hard you drop your guns and your religion. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/42 "2008-04-23T01:39:36Z")
52-48 with over 600K votes in! ETA: Oops, that was off the state site, which is apparently kinda flukey. A moment ago, it was C 315K, O 289K. Now it’s 278K - 253K. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/43 "2008-04-23T01:41:37Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Then go home and cover your head, because the Republicans have already won the fall election, and all you can do about is whine impotently. [/QUOTE] I fear you may be right. Seriously. It would be so easy to shut people like me up, though. Just give us a paper trail. That’s all I ask. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/44 "2008-04-23T01:45:05Z")
But at this point, would you trust the paper trail? If they’ve already tampered with the machines, why can’t they use them to produce a paper trail to say anything they want? It’s not like there are measures in place for voters to confirm. And while I think the voting machine issue is serious, I’m still not at the point of “that’s exactly something they’d do; therefore, they’re doing it RIGHT NOW!” That could change, but not yet. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/45 "2008-04-23T01:46:33Z")
Sheesh…are 'dopers who are Dem’s the mainstream of the party?? If so…gods help the Dem’s. In any case it looks to me as if Obama is going to keep it close enough to make this victory for Clinton in PA a Pyrrhic one. I don’t see how these results are all that unexpected or even that interesting. It’s STILL going to come down to the convention…and because of the system in place it’s still up in the air, though I expect Obama to come out on top in the end. Unless of course Diebold cancels the election and makes Bush king for life…or something. ‘WAR kittens!!!’ ‘No, just baby cats…’ -XT ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/46 "2008-04-23T01:47:12Z")
Right now, Drudge is reporting: PA Precincts Reporting 31% CLINTON 351,704 OBAMA…291,305 That’s Clinton 55% to Obama’s 45%. If Clinton’s margin goes into double-digits, this is going to the convention unless there’s a miraculous turnaround next week. If Clinton’s margin drops back to down to 3-5%, it’s probably over. But with a Clinton, you never know when they’ll quit. She’s like a pit bull. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/47 "2008-04-23T01:47:34Z")
A lot of the argument now seems to be how Hillary is going to convince people to keep supporting her. Especially her funders. Obama broke her bank in Pennsylvania and there is a question as to whether the big money people will continue to be big spenders. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/48 "2008-04-23T01:49:05Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] There’s something just a wee bit ‘off’ about those percentages… [/QUOTE] It includes the dead people who voted…but don’t get counted in the denominator. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/49 "2008-04-23T01:49:19Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] But at this point, would you trust the paper trail? If they’ve already tampered with the machines, why can’t they use them to produce a paper trail to say anything they want? It’s not like there are measures in place for voters to confirm. [/quote] There _is_ a way to confirm the paper trail. every voter gets a printout which he can verify for himself, then place into a locked bin like any other paper ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/50 "2008-04-23T01:50:36Z")
[QUOTE=jshore] It includes the dead people who voted…but don’t get counted in the denominator. 😃 [/QUOTE] Hey now, this isn’t Chicago or Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/51 "2008-04-23T01:50:52Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] [85% of the votes in PA were taken on paperless diebold machines](http://verifiedvoting.org/). What the county by county is, I don’t know, but my assumption is they’d be more likely to be in the big cities than in “Alabama.” [/QUOTE] If Diebold has the ability to swing the results they don’t need to tamper with the primary race, and they wouldn’t use it without a better reason than to keep Clinton in the race another few weeks. If you have the referees in your pocket you don’t use them for an exhibition game, you save them for the playoffs. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/52 "2008-04-23T01:51:04Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] There _is_ a way to confirm the paper trail. every voter gets a printout which he can verify for himself, then place into a locked bin like any other paper ballot. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but that was my point. There’s nothing like that in place NOW. So when you said that a paper trail would get “people like [you] to shut up,” that’s not possible. So there’s no way the current Pennsylvania results can be anything but tainted in your eyes. So why say it would get you to “shut up”? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/53 "2008-04-23T01:51:35Z")
Isn’t this going exactly like expected? I’d really like to see some reliable results from SDMB stats. As we have been pretty spot on in a lot of our predictions. Plain and simple Clinton needs money. And if this primary is close enough, she will get some wind for a day or two, then the MSM will pick back up that she is still waaaay behind and Obama is still way ahead especially in the next two primaries. This PA win only means that she will cackle a little louder tomorrow, and then her campaign will go right back to being the snarky rov-bot it’s morphed into during the last year. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/54 "2008-04-23T01:52:25Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Sheesh…are 'dopers who are Dem’s the mainstream of the party?? If so…gods help the Dem’s. [/QUOTE] Say what? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/55 "2008-04-23T01:52:29Z")
eta…deleted. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/56 "2008-04-23T01:52:26Z")
They’re coming in thick and fast now. 856K votes cast already, says CNN, and it’s 55-45. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/57 "2008-04-23T01:54:39Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Right now, Drudge is reporting: PA Precincts Reporting 31% CLINTON 351,704 OBAMA…291,305 That’s Clinton 55% to Obama’s 45%. If Clinton’s margin goes into double-digits, this is going to the convention unless there’s a miraculous turnaround next week. If Clinton’s margin drops back to down to 3-5%, it’s probably over. But with a Clinton, you never know when they’ll quit. She’s like a pit bull. [/QUOTE] Anything in single digits – hell anything less than 20 – is a loss for Clinton. The Supers have been telgraphing that they aren’t going to let it go to the convention. They will pressure Clinton to get out now, and if she doesn’t go, they’ll all commit to Obama in May and basically take it out of her hands. I think she’ll quit after NC and IN. She’ll have to. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/58 "2008-04-23T01:56:17Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] Yeah, but that was my point. There’s nothing like that in place NOW. So when you said that a paper trail would get “people like [you] to shut up,” that’s not possible. So there’s no way the current Pennsylvania results can be anything but tainted in your eyes. So why say it would get you to “shut up”? [/QUOTE] Oh, in the CURRENT race, nothing can make me shut up. They can’t prove the results, so why should anyone accept them? ---
**Author:** ![9thFloor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/9/b487fb/32.png) [@9thFloor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/9thFloor)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/59 "2008-04-23T01:56:47Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] Isn’t this going exactly like expected? I’d really like to see some reliable results from SDMB stats. As we have been pretty spot on in a lot of our predictions. Plain and simple Clinton needs money. And if this primary is close enough, she will get some wind for a day or two, then the MSM will pick back up that she is still waaaay behind and Obama is still way ahead especially in the next two primaries. This PA win only means that she will cackle a little louder tomorrow, and then her campaign will go right back to being the snarky rov-bot it’s morphed into during the last year. [/QUOTE] Um, no. You said she’d win in a squeaker. But it looks like double digits thus far in PA. Not a squeaker. A couple percentage points is a squeaker, I assume? Actually, I asked for a definition of ‘squeaker’ back in that thread and never got it. Not as was expected (by some Obama folks). I even heard someone in the Obama camp say he might win and there was a post or two on here of an Obama supporter predicting a victory in PA. LOL Talk about drinking the liberal white fruit punch! Diebold, huh? :rolleyes: It can’t just be because Obama can’t connect with some voters because of who he is, fumbles under pressure at the debate, lied about the gun thing, etc. can it? Oh well. Happy dance for me tonight. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461/60 "2008-04-23T01:56:49Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Anything in single digits – hell anything less than 20 – is a loss for Clinton. The Supers have been telgraphing that they aren’t going to let it go to the convention. They will pressure Clinton to get out now, and if she doesn’t go, they’ll all commit to Obama in May and basically take it out of her hands. I think she’ll quit after NC and IN. She’ll have to. [/QUOTE] Exactly like we’ve been predicting all along. This is not a surprise tonight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-primary-lets-get-this-party-started/446461.md?page=4)