# Pennsylvania rednecks beat and kill Mexican illegal immigrant; get same sentence as beating a dog **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 18, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166 "2009-06-18T13:26:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/21 "2009-06-18T14:56:48Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > When six black students beat a white student into unconsciousness, none of you asshole liberals blubbered about that. I’m going to give you a serious response: we don’t know about every crime, racist or otherwise. Had you or someone else raised a Pit thread similar to this one and it were spotted, I’m confident that there would have been a similar response. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/22 "2009-06-18T15:01:45Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m going to give you a serious response: we don’t know about every crime, racist or otherwise. Had you or someone else raised a Pit thread similar to this one and it were spotted, I’m confident that there would have been a similar response. I think he is referring to the Jana Six from LA. From what I remember, the punishment the teenagers got was more in line with the assault they did than what the two white teenagers mentioned in the OP got. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/23 "2009-06-18T15:07:42Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > I think he is referring to the Jana Six from LA. From what I remember, the punishment the teenagers got was more in line with the assault they did than what the two white teenagers mentioned in the OP got. Not quite. The Jena 6 were, despite being minors and despite doing nothing more than white kids had been doing to them, had the entire adult play book thrown at them. [Jena 6](http://www.democracynow.org/2007/7/10/the_case_of_the_jena_six) > [@](#): > > Last December, six black students at Jena High School were arrested after a school fight in which a white student was beaten and suffered a concussion and multiple bruises. The six black students were charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy. They face up to 100 years in prison without parole. The Jena Six, as they have come to be known, range in age from 15 to 17 years old. > > Just over a week ago, an all-white jury took less than two days to convict 17 year-old Mychal Bell, the first of the Jena Six to go on trial. He was convicted of aggravated battery and conspiracy charges and now faces up to 22 years in prison. So, as usual when our coterie of resident Right-Tards opens their mouth it is to kick themselves in their own teeth. White and killing a mexican = kids will be kids, run along now. Blacks beating up a white kid = conspiracy to murder, no soup for you for 22 years. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/24 "2009-06-18T15:31:03Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > A white reporter is murdered by[the black equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan](http://www.slate.com/id/2171745/)in Oakland, a criminal organization the police are too afraid to investigate closely, and there’s not a peep out of you sanctimonious pustules. [Chauncey Bailey](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauncey_Bailey) was a black man and its been all over the papers out here as a major scandal. The man who ordered his assassination is going on trial for his murder ( as well as many other things ) and faces life in prison. It looks very likely he’ll be convicted, based at least on the publicly available evidence. His organization is virtually defunct. I think your outrage on this one is entirely off the rails. As for your other rants, really what’s the relevance? You have no idea if the OP is a “liberal” who doesn’t openly condemn every attack you mentioned. Regardless, is not the incident mentioned by the OP worth ranting about? If not, why not? And if so, then why castigate him for a “thought crime” that you really would have no idea whether he committed? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/25 "2009-06-18T15:34:07Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > While it most certainly was murder, I’ll just note that you could have written the title as “Two college students capture and kill fugitive from justice”. And if these guys beat to death someone who employed an illegal immigrant would you say the same ? How about someone guilty of littering ? ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/26 "2009-06-18T15:34:18Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I suspect it wasn’t the illegal status that was bothering them: it was being Mexican that was the problem. > > For example, if it had been a young Englishman or Australian living in Pennsylvania with his girlfriend, overstaying his visa and getting some illegal work, would the same situation have happened? I suspect not, because I think there’s some racism in the mixture here. I wasn’t really commenting on that one way or another. I was responding to **Sage Rat’s** statement that there’s some sort of legal gray area here because the victim was an illegal immigrant. There, of course, isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/27 "2009-06-18T15:35:21Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > When six black students beat a white student into unconsciousness, none of you asshole liberals blubbered about that. You miserable hypocritical bastards actually tried to pretend that the perpetrators were victims and demonstrated in support of them. A black Muslim kills a young Army recruiter in the name of Islam, and it’s not even a blip on your radar. A white reporter is murdered by[the black equivalent of the Ku Klux Klan](http://www.slate.com/id/2171745/)in Oakland, a criminal organization the police are too afraid to investigate closely, and there’s not a peep out of you sanctimonious pustules. > > When I see you scum expressing the same level of moral outrage when whites are the victims, I’ll be more inclined to take you fools seriously. ITT: the poor disadvantaged white man.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/28 "2009-06-18T15:38:44Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I think your outrage on this one is entirely off the rails. Nothing new. **LonesomePolecat** is Pat Buchanan without the connections. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/29 "2009-06-18T15:49:30Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Nothing new. **LonesomePolecat** is Pat Buchanan without the connections. Compared with **LonesomePolecat** , Pat Buchanan is the epitome of moderation and reasonableness. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/30 "2009-06-18T16:07:11Z")
Honestly, I can’t get too worked up about this. It doesn’t appear that the facts are quite as cut-and-dried as the headline makes them out to be. Of course, **Lonesome Polecat** is still a fucking idiot, and it appears that **Sage Rat** is too. One I’m totally unsurprised by; one I’m totally surprised by. I’ll let you guess which is which. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/31 "2009-06-18T16:34:40Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > [Chauncey Bailey](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauncey_Bailey) was a black man and its been all over the papers out here as a major scandal. The man who ordered his assassination is going on trial for his murder ( as well as many other things ) and faces life in prison. It looks very likely he’ll be convicted, based at least on the publicly available evidence. His organization is virtually defunct. I think your outrage on this one is entirely off the rails. And Devaughndre Broussard, the man who did the actual killing, has already pled guilty to voluntary manslaughter and been sentenced to 25 years in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/32 "2009-06-18T16:34:58Z")
I was about to take issue with the last line of the OP, because what hate crimes really are are thought crimes. I’m also anti-illegal immigration and think if we were tougher on it we would then be able to support more legal immigration. But seriously, a _tu quoque_ when someone’s beaten to death? Words fail. Because it’s “apparently” legal in some Roy Bean sense to kill someone (because there’s apparently no law against killing an illegal immigrant,) then it’s just peachy to do that and we should all support it? Really really? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/33 "2009-06-18T16:44:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Of course, **Lonesome Polecat** is still a fucking idiot, and it appears that **Sage Rat** is too. One I’m totally unsurprised by; one I’m totally surprised by. I’ll let you guess which is which. I was pointing out that racism need not be called into the discussion to explain the result. That it’s murder and a murder result is what should be expected is in fact the very first thing I said. Just because it takes more text to say one thing than another doesn’t mean that there’s a preference for the thing which took more text. I can spend a whole book explaining the perceived benefits of communism, and that still doesn’t make me a communist sympathizer. It just makes me someone who has the ability to write about various subjects. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/34 "2009-06-18T16:48:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I was pointing out that racism need not be called into the discussion to explain the result. That it’s murder and a murder result is what should be expected is in fact the very first thing I said. Fair enough, then. It’s still weird that you think it may not be murder in the eyes of the law because the victim was an illegal; vigilantism is outlawed for very good reason. Apart from anything else, I guess with 90% certainty that the killers did not ask to see the victim’s green card before beating the shit out of him. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/35 "2009-06-18T16:52:21Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I was pointing out that racism need not be called into the discussion to explain the result. So, you expect that the same result would have occured if the victim were, say, Canadian? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/36 "2009-06-18T16:53:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, you expect that the same result would have occured if the victim were, say, Canadian? If Canadians had a habit of breaking the law, sure. Or are you saying that only people of Mexican race can habitually be law breakers? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/37 "2009-06-18T16:54:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Apart from anything else, I guess with 90% certainty that the killers did not ask to see the victim’s green card before beating the shit out of him. Your post reminded me of the TV program I saw a few months back where some groups on the border were hassling apparent immigrants on the street demanding to see their immigration papers. They refused. Now, I think that in an odd sense if they _were_ illegal immigrants it was deserved because they shouldn’t be here in the country in the first place (in the same way that vigilantism is usually deserved if the accused is guilty of the crime, this threads murder excepted of course.) But since the “immigrants” refused to show their papers, there’s no way to tell if they were illegal or not. Heck, if I were a legal immigrant (or was born in the USA but grew up in a place where I got a Hispanic accent,) I wouldn’t feel like proving it to those yahoos, either. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/38 "2009-06-18T17:00:41Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If Canadians had a habit of breaking the law, sure. Or are you saying that only people of Mexican race can habitually be law breakers? What the fuck is this supposed to mean? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/39 "2009-06-18T17:00:41Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Of course, the good folk of bumfuck Pennsylvania took into consideration that these were good boys that just did a bad thing. Besides, he was just a dirty Mexican and not here legally. > > Fortunately there is no such thing as a hate crime and normal criminal laws protect all citizens equally. Of course you were there and saw all the testimony and evidence, right?:dubious: “Defense lawyers argued that Ramirez’s death was a street brawl gone wrong that was not motivated by racial bias. They also suggested that Ramirez was responsible for triggering the second confrontation.” The jury more or less agreed with this. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166/40 "2009-06-18T17:03:22Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If Canadians had a habit of breaking the law, sure. Or are you saying that only people of Mexican race can habitually be law breakers? I don’t think the fact that Mexicans are more likely to attempt to cross the border illegally than Canadians is in dispute. However, do you really thing a bunch of thugs would accost a white (or even black) stranger on the street due to their residency status? I highly doubt these kids knew that the victim was an illegal. > [@Ludovic](#): > > Your post reminded me of the TV program I saw a few months back where some groups on the border were hassling apparent immigrants on the street demanding to see their immigration papers. They refused. Now, I think that in an odd sense if they _were_ illegal immigrants it was deserved because they shouldn’t be here in the country in the first place (in the same way that vigilantism is usually deserved if the accused is guilty of the crime, this threads murder excepted of course.) I can’t think of any other situation in which somebody can be investigated for a crime without probable cause (even though we’re not talking about law enforcement officials here), so why would illegal immigrants be any different? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pennsylvania-rednecks-beat-and-kill-mexican-illegal-immigrant-get-same-sentence-as-beating-a-dog/500166.md?page=3)