# Penny auctions: any Dopers ever made it work? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 24, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795 "2011-01-24T16:24:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/1 "2011-01-24T16:24:14Z")
I know the whole [industry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penny_auction) is rife with [scams](http://www.bestpennyauctionwebsites.com/2010/09/11/is-swipeauctions-a-scam-who-is-behind-swipeauctions-com/), I get that. But it appears that some sites are legit, it’s a matter of doing it armed with information and strategy. I know I had to spend a few bucks of my own to absorb the reality of how it works: your bid has to be the one that runs out the clock, you are counting on no one bidding in time. I understood the rules theoretically, I just didn’t comprehend them practically until I’d actually participated and for some stupid reason my brain kept telling me that there was some magical second at the end that wouldn’t reset the clock but would win the auction. I’m thinking a good way to start is to focus on cheap gift cards and bidpacks at first - less competition. Win a few of those to get the feel without risking too much on a super-competitive item with high value. I figure it’s also dumb to waste bids too early, and part of the research is determining the average number of bids certain items generate before a win and start bidding closer to the average. Also that should be compared to the average savings and price paid. Other factors that seem worthy of research and which might be helpful is to review the time of day, the idea being that some times of day are less competitive than others. And all this assumes frontline research regarding legitimacy of the site to begin with, ways to recoup as much as possible (using bids to buy things, etc.) But any positive Doper experiences would be welcome. (I feel certain there are a lot of negative Doper experiences…I figure even legit sites have seen a lot of people like me who did it on a lark and just threw away money) ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/2 "2011-01-24T16:44:57Z")
I’d guess this is like the stock market. If the stakes are high enough, then it doesn’t matter how brilliant your gaming of the system gets – everyone else will figure it out too. Then you’re back to square one. Or rather, it’s much like the poison cup scene from “The Princess Bride.” You’ll wait until the last minute, but that means the other guy will also wait till the last minute, so you’ll outsmart him by bidding early, but he’ll know that you’ll know to bid early, so you’ll go back to bidding late, but he’ll know that you’ll know that he’ll know… ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/3 "2011-01-24T17:01:53Z")
I wanted to try it when I first heard about it, but my husband said no. Then he tried it himself shortly thereafter. He was all wrapped up in it for a day or two but never had any success. (I had also heard that even if you win, it could take weeks to receive your prize). So I can’t say whether or not it was an actual _scam_, but it did get some of our money for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/4 "2011-01-24T17:06:34Z")
I don’t know if this counts as threadshitting, but I don’t think there are any sites like this, not a one, that _aren’t_ basically scamming their users. I know the idea of getting something cheap is appealing, but I really, really doubt you’ll ever actually save any money. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/5 "2011-01-24T17:26:51Z")
All Penny Auctions are a scam, and this [link](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/12/profitable-until-deemed-illegal/comments/page/4/) explains why in a readable manner. > [@](#): > > In short, swoopo is about as close to pure, distilled evil in a business plan as I’ve ever seen. Penny Auction site are gambling, and should be regulated as such. They make obscene profits. Some lucky user might get a cheap item, but the way they are set up (each bid costs money, even if unsuccessful) means the bidders collectively pay huge sums of money. To give you one example, a laptop valued at $1299 went for $172.84. Sounds pretty good, until you realise that **17,284** bids at $0.75 each were made to get to that point. Total profit of $13,135.84 **on one item** , and they don’t even have to order the laptop until the auction expires (no stock costs). Total and complete scam. Here is a serious account of an [attempt to game](http://jcs.org/notaweblog/2009/03/06/trying_to_game_swoopo_com/) [Swoopo.com](http://Swoopo.com). It didn’t work, and the way the site was set-up it was impossible to get it to work. The basic reason being, each bid extends the auction duration. Last minute bids don’t work, as there are client tools that make automated bids against you. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/6 "2011-01-24T17:57:35Z")
As I said, I’m very aware of the degree of scam involved, saying it repeatedly is entirely unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/7 "2011-01-24T17:59:01Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > I wanted to try it when I first heard about it, but **my husband said no**. Then _ **he** _ tried it himself shortly thereafter. All due respect, your marriage has an interesting dynamic, to put it mildly. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/8 "2011-01-24T18:10:06Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > As I said, I’m very aware of the degree of scam involved, saying it repeatedly is entirely unnecessary. You said that it appears that some of the sites are legit. So yes, it’s sort of necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/9 "2011-01-24T18:30:29Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > All Penny Auctions are a scam, and this [link](http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/12/profitable-until-deemed-illegal/comments/page/4/) explains why in a readable manner. :eek: Wow, what a racket! Assuming one could put off the temptation to turn such insane profits, is there any way of constructing a similar site that isn’t such a blatant rip-off? Is there such a site that does? ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/10 "2011-01-24T18:43:25Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > All due respect, your marriage has an interesting dynamic, to put it mildly. Well, I should have phrased that differently. He didn’t _forbid_ me; he said it sounded like a scam. Then when he looked into it, he got interested himself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/11 "2011-01-24T18:51:27Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > As I said, I’m very aware of the degree of scam involved, saying it repeatedly is entirely unnecessary. Did you check out the link in post #5? If so, could you explain why you think it still might be legit? IMHO, asking only for responses from people that have had a positive experience with this scam is equivalent to inquiring about pyramid schemes by only asking questions from the very few who have made money from participating. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/12 "2011-01-24T18:58:18Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > :eek: Wow, what a racket! > > Assuming one could put off the temptation to turn such insane profits, is there any way of constructing a similar site that isn’t such a blatant rip-off? Is there such a site that does? There are two obviously dodgy practices that I can see with these sites: the high ratio of bidder fee to winner fee (which goes up to infinity in the case of the 100% off auctions) and the obfuscation regarding the real cost being paid. If it was me, I’d change the ratio: make it 50 cents to raise the bid by 50 cents and you are still bringing in double whatever the final bid was, without being so blatantly evil. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/13 "2011-01-24T19:08:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Did you check out the link in post #5? If so, could you explain why you think it still might be legit? > IMHO, asking only for responses from people that have had a positive experience with this scam is equivalent to inquiring about pyramid schemes by only asking questions from the very few who have made money from participating. That was a single site, and didnt’ state anything that I don’t already know. Not all sites operate the same, that’s the point. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/14 "2011-01-24T19:12:48Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > That was a single site, and didnt’ state anything that I don’t already know. Not all sites operate the same, that’s the point. Go to the one you used and see if they run any 100% off auctions. If they do, you will have your answer. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/15 "2011-01-24T19:13:01Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > That was a single site, and didnt’ state anything that I don’t already know. Not all sites operate the same, that’s the point. So give us a link to a site you think might be legit. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/16 "2011-01-24T19:14:29Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > :eek: Wow, what a racket! > > Assuming one could put off the temptation to turn such insane profits, is there any way of constructing a similar site that isn’t such a blatant rip-off? Is there such a site that does? There are many such sites. Some are completely evil, some are not. “evil” being defined as dishonest. Because the scripts are relatively easy to get and run, there’s new such sites coming along all the time, and while they are tempting because they are new and therefore have less competition in bidding, the newness means they are less trustworthy. It’s a fantastic business model for the owners, who do make huge profits because of the bids, but that’s not in itself dishonest. As long as all costs are clearly stated and the site fills the order, then it is like a lottery: nothing evil, but it’s a gamble. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/17 "2011-01-24T19:16:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So give us a link to a site you think might be legit. I linked to one of the sites that reviews such sites. If anyone’s interested they can check it out, and there’s a couple of others. I haven’t delved very deep, but of course if any site claiming to be an impartial reviewer seems to be shoving one or two sites down your throat, that makes the review site suspect as well. Which is why it’s wise to clear the review sites before clearing the sites they review. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/18 "2011-01-24T19:22:19Z")
From [Hubpages](http://hubpages.com/hub/Penny-Auction-Site-Reviews-Stealing-Deals-Weeding-Shills): > [@](#): > > In summary > Penny auction sites can offer extremely good bargains, if you do your research and plan ahead. There’s a plethora of sites to choose from, with new ones cropping up every day. Choose one that everyone’s heard about and you won’t get much of a bargain with all the bidding. Choose one that’s just starting up and you risk finding the latest, greatest fraud. Or at least… you would have, if you hadn’t just learned how to tell legit sites from scams. Now not only can you spot the difference, but you also have the option of catching a scam site in the act, calling up an attorney and pulling the plug on it… and making far more than a penny in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/19 "2011-01-24T19:55:54Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I linked to one of the sites that reviews such sites. If anyone’s interested they can check it out, and there’s a couple of others. I haven’t delved very deep, but of course if any site claiming to be an impartial reviewer seems to be shoving one or two sites down your throat, that makes the review site suspect as well. Which is why it’s wise to clear the review sites before clearing the sites they review. Well, I did some delving…and now I’m afraid to even _name_ the ones I checked out those from those top sites mentioned in your link, for fear of attracting company spammers disguised as happy users-this apparently happened to other boards that mentioned the names of these penny-ante companies. I also find it suspicious that when I typed in each name in Google search, the next entry it found after the name was the name followed by the word “scam”. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795/20 "2011-01-24T20:33:34Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > It’s a fantastic business model for the owners, who do make huge profits because of the bids, but that’s not in itself dishonest. As long as all costs are clearly stated and the site fills the order, then it is like a lottery: nothing evil, but it’s a gamble. It’s exactly like the lottery, if lottery tickets cost $1 and the grand prize was $10,000 for every million tickets sold. It’s also quite a lot like roulette, if the pay out was 35 to 1 but the wheel had seven thousand numbers of it. I’m fairly sure there are gambling laws that prevent the house from taking 90% of the pot from each bet. The same laws should apply to sites like this. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/penny-auctions-any-dopers-ever-made-it-work/568795.md?page=2)