# Pentagon Defends Gen. Who Chided Muslims **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 16, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872 "2003-10-16T22:25:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/41 "2003-10-17T22:21:22Z")
I think defending him under free speech is pretty hypocritical, considering George Bush’s comments regarding a site that criticized him - “I think there should be limits on freedom.” ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/42 "2003-10-17T22:35:40Z")
> [@](#): > > “I knew that my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God, and his was an idol.” It also seems to imply the idol _was_ a god. Quite apart from the intolerant idiocy of the man, isn’t Christianity monotheistic thesedays, wouldn’t implying there was another, if lesser, god, be blasphemous? ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/43 "2003-10-17T22:43:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\*This d@mn fool needs to broken back down to buck private. \*\* He probably never was a buck private. The vast majority of officers in US forces spend no time at all as enlisted personnel. They have separate lives from the moment of their enlistment. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/44 "2003-10-18T00:36:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*To me his post seems quite in place here in GD. What am I missing? \*\* probably nothing, as it turns out. The first couple of posts suggested to me that it could get ugly in short order, but thankfully, GD class seems to be holding. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/45 "2003-10-18T00:42:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*He probably never was a buck private. The vast majority of officers in US forces spend no time at all as enlisted personnel. They have separate lives from the moment of their enlistment. \*\* True. There is, however, a method by which an Academy (or ROTC) graduate can be converted to enlisted status, and that is by court-martial. Not terribly likely in this case. He should be offered the choice of retirement or assignment to the Acrtic. As an editorial I read this morning stated: “…at his level anything said outside his living room will be seen as speaking for the U.S. military.” ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/46 "2003-10-18T01:22:25Z")
Doesn’t Christianity involve idols? Statues of Jesus? Fake guys on crosses? That suddenly seems kind of silly to me, especially given the Torah’s strict instructions that graven images of God are verboten, because Jesus is supposed to be God. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/47 "2003-10-18T01:35:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\* This guy isn’t part of the Administration, **Rashak**. He’s part of the Army. Unless you mean Rumsfeld, in which case the contradiction would be how he’s suddenly all pro-freedom of speech, as **DeadJesus** said. > > I think **owl** ’s probably on the mark. It should be made clear to Boykin, though, that if he’s going to make comments like this, he shouldn’t do it _in uniform_ as a representative of the United States government or Armed Forces. \*\* ``` I was talking about Rumsfeld... thou the big mouth general is pretty wrong too. Imagine your subordinates go all over the place saying the wrong things in public ? You then have to do damage control 24/7... He might not be part of the administration... but he is a high ranking officer and he should be punished "politically". Free speech is free speech... but high rank means a little bit more responsibility. I think Rummy is an asshole... but if a general says the same thing about Rummy do you think freedom of speech will save his ass ? Why should a general blab on and humiliate the gods of US allies and foes. He has the right... but he should pay the price. Still back to my main point... the REALLY SAD thing is Rumsfeld defending the general. That "proves" to other countries the "real nature" of the Iraq Invasion and Bush so called War on Terrorism. Like someone said... its loose tongues like the general and Rummy that get terrorists all fired up. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/48 "2003-10-18T01:38:06Z")
As for the idol thing… I think the general was implying their “god” was only a idol, material only not a diety. Not that they venerated idols. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/49 "2003-10-18T07:57:56Z")
> [@](#): > > I was talking about Rumsfeld… thou the big mouth general is pretty wrong too. Imagine your subordinates go all over the place saying the wrong things in public ? You then have to do damage control 24/7… You wonder. Most of these guys have said a LOT of what I think are the wrong things, but this administration almost never criticizes itself. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/50 "2003-10-18T14:46:27Z")
I am surprised that no one has yet mentioned the other truly scary statement made by General Boykin, along the lines of… The American people did not select George W. Bush to be President. God selected him. (I am paraphrasing here.) No wonder Rumsfeld and the administration are slow to condemn his remarks; they basically believe the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/51 "2003-10-18T17:41:32Z")
Daisy Cutter: > [@](#): > > Originally posted by sqweels > There is no such thing as Satan, therefore anyone who equates another with Satan is a bigot. > > Ok, that statement makes no sense whatsoever. > CITE ? Awkwardly put perhaps, but the point is that any accusation of Satanic influence (by implication in this case)is automatically a false accusation which says more about the person making the accusation than those he is targeting. I’m not sure why you are demanding a cite. The assertion that Satan does not exist is true until the fundies can provide evidence and logic to support their dubious assertion that he does. The rest is is a logically derived conclusion, albeit a subjective opinion. ---
**Author:** ![NeSBiT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@NeSBiT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeSBiT)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/52 "2003-10-19T09:01:18Z")
This whole thing has been blown out of proportion. He basically said his god was better and that we were fighting satan. Every religious person thinks their god is better, if they didn’t then they would change religions. And, if satan is the cause of all “evil” things, then fighting terrorism is kind of like fighting satan. Personally, I’m a satanist so I don’t believe in evil or satan. But I do think it’s a good idea t o fight terrorism, and while it’s debatable about whether or Iraq was the best target at least it’s a step in the right direction. lex talonis. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Shawn\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn_K)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/53 "2003-10-19T14:10:03Z")
For the record, Islam promotes that there is only one God shared by all major religions - Allah is just the arabic word. God has, I think, forty-three official names and millions of unofficial ones. A rose by any other name-kinda thing. It’s very hard to explain to an ignorant non-muslim that believes they have the exclusive God, owning Him like a Sega Genesis. Man, Ramadan is starting soon, too. The anti-muslim sentiment should spike soon. It will, at very least, be funny to see Rumsfeld put his foot in his mouth again. – Shawn K. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/54 "2003-10-19T15:46:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NeSBiT \* > \*\*This whole thing has been blown out of proportion. He basically said his god was better and that we were fighting satan. Every religious person thinks their god is better, if they didn’t then they would change religions. And, if satan is the cause of all “evil” things, then fighting terrorism is kind of like fighting satan. > > Personally, I’m a satanist so I don’t believe in evil or satan. But I do think it’s a good idea t o fight terrorism, and while it’s debatable about whether or Iraq was the best target at least it’s a step in the right direction. lex talonis. \*\* I understood the general said their god was ONLY an idol… so he wasn’t comparing diety status… he was saying their god either doesn’t exist or is an idol (different interpretations). Both highly insulting to muslims. Just saying yours is better would be less damaging. ``` Second if your a satanist you should beleive in satan no ? Strange... The way you put the general's view curiously seems extremely similar to the way extremist islam has put the fight against the US Satan... which I take to be no coincidence. They are the same thing with different names and tactics. Extremists deserve one another... its the rest (of the world) that gets caught in the crossfire. ``` ---
**Author:** ![NeSBiT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@NeSBiT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeSBiT)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/55 "2003-10-19T18:56:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rashak Mani \* > \*\*I understood the general said their god was ONLY an idol… so he wasn’t comparing diety status… he was saying their god either doesn’t exist or is an idol (different interpretations). Both highly insulting to muslims. Just saying yours is better would be less damaging. > > ``` > Second if your a satanist you should beleive in satan no ? Strange... > > The way you put the general's view curiously seems extremely similar to the way extremist islam has put the fight against the US Satan... which I take to be no coincidence. They are the same thing with different names and tactics. Extremists deserve one another... its the rest (of the world) that gets caught in the crossfire. ** > > ``` yeah, he said their god didn’t exist basically, my point being most religons think their way is the one true way, even if the christian and muslim god is the same . Satanists don’t believe in satan, god, ghosts, demons, fairies, santa clause, or the easter bunny. We believe we are our own god, and our own devil. We believe everything that is good in the world has come from evil, and that without evil there would be no concept of good. ---
**Author:** ![NeSBiT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@NeSBiT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeSBiT)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/56 "2003-10-19T18:59:31Z")
Let me clarfy something: believe in human evil, not Evil as in a force of evi such as the devil. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/57 "2003-10-20T17:09:04Z")
Every religious person belives that their god is real. Therefore, other (different) gods of other religions are false. Therefore, any religions person would say that their god is realler than others. People who criticize the fellow, therefore, oppose any devout religions person in such an office. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/58 "2003-10-20T17:38:57Z")
Balderdash and poppycock. Many religious people believe that others are just worshipping in an inappropriate way. Since your premise is baloney it’s likely that your conclusion is codswallop. The objections arent about the fellow’s religious beliefs, rather they’re about his talk that follows the al Qaeda party line. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/59 "2003-10-20T19:33:28Z")
Rashak Mani: [quote] The way you put the general’s view curiously seems extremely similar to the way extremist islam has put the fight against the US Satan… which I take to be no coincidence. They are the same thing with different names and tactics. Extremists deserve one another… its the rest (of the world) that gets caught in the crossfire. [quote] My sentiments exactly. NeSBiT: Satanists don’t believe in satan, god, ghosts, demons, fairies, santa clause, or the easter bunny. This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Satan is supposedly a supernatual being who exists to diseminate evil. What PR genius decided that “Satanism” is a good moniker for a religion that doesn’t even belive in him? “That way people will respect us and take us seriously.” Where does Old Scratch even enter into it? I could be waggish and say that Christian and Muslim fundies are “Satanists” in that they do believe in Satan, but to be fair they are “anti-satanists” as opposed to those of us who are “non-statanists”. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872/60 "2003-10-20T21:09:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NeSBiT \* > \*\*Let me clarfy something: believe in human evil, not Evil as in a force of evi such as the devil. \*\* Ok this second part was way more clarifying… you had me confused before. Still if you dont beleive in Satan (Evil or not) then you shouldn’t be satanists. You should be evilists or something else… just for namesake. I kind of agree there is no Evil (or Good/God in fact)… but human “evil”. (I think its misguided pride/greed/fear more thou… not evil ). Still where does Satan come in all this ? * * * sorry for the hijack… now back to loose lipped generals: Athelas that is not the case… or shouldnt be. Catholics and Protestants at least seem to understand each other as misguided only. (Or different at best.) I won’t defend theists thou who I think tend to discriminate all who don’t see things their way… Still even if he has the right to say that stupidity he shouldn’t have said it… and Rummy shouldnt have backed him up. The price ? US bodybags. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-defends-gen-who-chided-muslims/207872.md?page=2)