# Pentagon demands wounded vets refund part of their signing bonuses **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714 "2007-12-03T22:18:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/1 "2007-12-03T22:18:23Z")
[No, really.](http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk1JmZnYmVsN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk3MjI2MzExJnlyaXJ5N2Y3MTdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5Mg==) The Pentagon is claiming a “clerical error” WRT one such demand – but there have been hundreds of others. I guess the thinking is, if for some reason (like getting wounded in action and disabled) you don’t serve out your full enlistment, why should you get your whole bonus? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/2 "2007-12-03T22:30:24Z")
My roommate’s friend was discharged from the Army for psychological reasons, among other things. I guess he was in an explosion that caused head trauma, after which he lost it and threatened to shoot his friend (all while in Iraq). So (he claims) they took away his bullets and sent him out on missions anyway. Apparently, he’s part of a lawsuit to against the Army because he says they put him in danger by sending him on missions without bullets, therefore exacerbating any of his preexisting psychological problems. To top it all off, he had to give back his sign on bonus. So, while maybe the request was a clerical error for the others, they’ve already taken roomie’s friend’s back. Then again, I honestly hear this guy’s stories and I’m not entirely sure what to believe. Obviously he’s unbalanced, so it’s difficult to see exactly what is truth and what is exaggeration. What I do know is that he: has an honorable discharge, has a purple heart, and was on the local news about his law suit. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/3 "2007-12-03T22:43:52Z")
I heard this story on the radio yesterday and had not had the time to look for cites. If it is as it is being reported, this is one of the most disgusting, despicable displays of utter ingratitude and stupidity I have ever seen. I hope the publicity will shame those in charge to change their tune. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/4 "2007-12-03T22:46:21Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [No, really.](http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk1JmZnYmVsN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk3MjI2MzExJnlyaXJ5N2Y3MTdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5Mg==) The Pentagon is claiming a “clerical error” WRT one such demand – but there have been hundreds of others. I guess the thinking is, if for some reason (like getting wounded in action and disabled) you don’t serve out your full enlistment, why should you get your whole bonus? [/QUOTE] When I enlisted in '86, it was made known up front to me that the sign-on bonus was revocable should I be incapacitated due to _non-duty-related injuries_. So if I was in any kind of accident not related to military duties, I’d have to fork over the bonus. But I asked, and had it spelled out in plain English: if my injuries _were_ duty-related, I may not receive the balance (if any) of any bonus due to me, but that I would be able to keep whatever I had received up to the point of injury. And by injury, I mean anything that would have rendered me unfit to continue serving; that would entail a medical discharge from the Army. Being wounded in the line of duty seems to me to fall under the category of “duty-related” injuries. What these 'tards in D.C. are thinking is beyond me. It’s fucking disgraceful. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/5 "2007-12-03T23:17:59Z")
[QUOTE=Southern Yankee] I heard this story on the radio yesterday and had not had the time to look for cites. If it is as it is being reported, this is one of the most disgusting, despicable displays of utter ingratitude and stupidity I have ever seen. I hope the publicity will shame those in charge to change their tune. [/QUOTE] Well, if you’ll read the link in the OP, Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY) is making a big fuss over it. Major egg on his face if it turns out to be bogus. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/6 "2007-12-03T23:21:56Z")
Oh, I’m not doubting it. Unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/7 "2007-12-03T23:25:46Z")
You have got to be kidding me. **BrainGlutton** , you and I are not on the same page very often, but you found a real fucked up deal with this thing. I’m with you all the way. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/8 "2007-12-03T23:29:40Z")
I knew appointing Roger Goodell to the Joint Chiefs was a bad idea… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/9 "2007-12-03T23:35:48Z")
[QUOTE=ExTank] When I enlisted in '86, it was made known up front to me that the sign-on bonus was revocable should I be incapacitated due to _non-duty-related injuries_. So if I was in any kind of accident not related to military duties, I’d have to fork over the bonus. But I asked, and had it spelled out in plain English: if my injuries _were_ duty-related, I may not receive the balance (if any) of any bonus due to me, but that I would be able to keep whatever I had received up to the point of injury. [/QUOTE] I’m not a military lawyer, but ISTM any way you can get hurt in a war zone should count as “duty-related” even if you were technically off-duty at the time. After all, it almost certainly wouldn’t have happened if you hadn’t been in a war zone. Heck, even if you stagger in front of a speeding car while drunk. Well, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/10 "2007-12-03T23:42:31Z")
It is depressing to see that nothing has changed in the [last nine months](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=415304&highlight=discharge): [How Specialist Town Lost His Benefits](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070409/kors) > [@](#): > > A six-month investigation has uncovered multiple cases in which soldiers wounded in Iraq are suspiciously diagnosed as having a personality disorder, then prevented from collecting benefits. The conditions of their discharge have infuriated many in the military community, including the injured soldiers and their families, veterans’ rights groups, even military officials required to process these dismissals. > > They say the military is purposely misdiagnosing soldiers like Town and that it’s doing so for one reason: to cheat them out of a lifetime of disability and medical benefits, thereby saving billions in expenses. > > In the Army’s separations manual it’s called Regulation 635-200, Chapter 5-13: “Separation Because of Personality Disorder.” It’s an alluring choice for a cash-strapped military because enacting it is quick and cheap. The Department of Veterans Affairs doesn’t have to provide medical care to soldiers dismissed with personality disorder. That’s because under Chapter 5-13, personality disorder is a pre-existing condition. The VA is only required to treat wounds sustained during service. > > Soldiers discharged under 5-13 can’t collect disability pay either. To receive those benefits, a soldier must be evaluated by a medical board, which must confirm that he is wounded and that his wounds stem from combat. The process takes several months, in contrast with a 5-13 discharge, which can be wrapped up in a few days. > > \*\*If a soldier dismissed under 5-13 hasn’t served out his contract, he has to give back a slice of his re-enlistment bonus as well. That amount is often larger than the soldier’s final paycheck. As a result, on the day of their discharge, many injured vets learn that they owe the Army several thousand dollars. \*\* > … > > In the last six years the Army has diagnosed and discharged more than 5,600 soldiers because of personality disorder, according to the Defense Department. And the numbers keep rising: 805 cases in 2001, 980 cases in 2003, 1,086 from January to November 2006. “It’s getting worse and worse every day,” says the official who handles discharge papers. “At my office the numbers started out normal. Now it’s up to three or four soldiers each day. It’s like, suddenly everybody has a personality disorder.” > > The reason is simple, he says. “They’re saving a buck. And they’re saving the VA money too. It’s all about money.” ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/11 "2007-12-03T23:52:50Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima] My roommate’s friend was discharged from the Army for psychological reasons, among other things. I guess he was in an explosion that caused head trauma, after which he lost it and threatened to shoot his friend (all while in Iraq). So (he claims) they took away his bullets and sent him out on missions anyway. [/QUOTE] Did he tell you the check is in the mail, he loves you, and promise not to cum in your mouth too? ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2007, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/12 "2007-12-04T03:06:35Z")
Pentagon demands wounded vets refund part of their signing bonuses Rudy’s Expensive (to the NYC taxpayers) Booty Calls ( 1 2 ) ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2007, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/13 "2007-12-04T03:50:39Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima] So (he claims) they took away his bullets and sent him out on missions anyway. [/QUOTE] Did he find a note saying he had a share in MM Enterprises? Come on! Everyone gets a share! ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2007, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/14 "2007-12-04T07:32:46Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Did he tell you the check is in the mail, he loves you, and promise not to cum in your mouth too? [/QUOTE] Well, considering I’ve never met the guy and was simply relaying the story (which, like I said, was on the news), na’ can’t say he did. He does have a law suit against the Army, that much I do know. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2007, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/15 "2007-12-04T08:11:45Z")
I thought this one was over? Like, as soon as the facts got out the Pentagon set a world land-speed backpedaling record, all a big misunderstanding. Reminds me of a story my father told. He was like 16in WWII, lied about his age, joined up and was sent to the Pacific. When the war was over, he and most everybody he knew was released in California with a couple of bucks and a Greyhound bus ticket home. He and thousands of others cashed their tickets and got drunk. And stayed drunk. In a few weeks to months, California was crawling with drunken vets. People felt obliged to buy them drinks (for a while, novelty and patriotic gratitude have a short shelf life…) And certainly a lot of these guys, veterans of Iwo Jima, Tarawa, different names for Hell…these guys had some pretty severe problems. We know its name, now, PTSD. So, anyway, California started picking them up and installing them in psychiatric hospitals, committing them without much of anything in the way of legal proceedings. So there he was, sobering up in a loony bin, half the people were genuinely nuts, and the other half were alcoholic vets like himself. “How could you tell the difference??” I asked. “Drunks always had a book.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/16 "2007-12-04T19:44:50Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] I thought this one was over? Like, as soon as the facts got out the Pentagon set a world land-speed backpedaling record, all a big misunderstanding. Reminds me of a story my father told. He was like 16in WWII, lied about his age, joined up and was sent to the Pacific. When the war was over, he and most everybody he knew was released in California with a couple of bucks and a Greyhound bus ticket home. He and thousands of others cashed their tickets and got drunk. And stayed drunk. In a few weeks to months, California was crawling with drunken vets. People felt obliged to buy them drinks (for a while, novelty and patriotic gratitude have a short shelf life…) And certainly a lot of these guys, veterans of Iwo Jima, Tarawa, different names for Hell…these guys had some pretty severe problems. We know its name, now, PTSD. So, anyway, California started picking them up and installing them in psychiatric hospitals, committing them without much of anything in the way of legal proceedings. So there he was, sobering up in a loony bin, half the people were genuinely nuts, and the other half were alcoholic vets like himself. “How could you tell the difference??” I asked. “Drunks always had a book.” [/QUOTE] I like that story, but there’s nothing in it about GIs getting screwed by the Defense Department. (Presumably they could still claim all promised vet benefits.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/17 "2007-12-04T19:58:31Z")
Nope. Just a story. But it goes back and back. Remember Rudhyard Kiplings poem, you know, “It’s Tommy this, and Tommy that and chuck the bugger out…” or some such. We do it every time, so does pretty much everybody else. We fall all over ourselves gushing patriotic platitudes about Our Heroes, and then the bill comes, and we want to itemize who ordered the extra serving of water. Combat fucks people up, it just does. If we would keep that in mind, that we are sending our children to Hell, we might be more reluctant. I hope so, anyway, despite all evidence to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2007, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/18 "2007-12-04T20:11:20Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Remember Rudhyard Kiplings poem, you know, “It’s Tommy this, and Tommy that and chuck the bugger out…” or some such. [/QUOTE] [“Tommy.”](http://www.web-books.com/classics/poetry/anthology/Kipling/Tommy.htm) ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/19 "2007-12-05T12:16:45Z")
For all the bullshit rhetoric going around about “supporting the troops,” it’s ultimately the government that is actually responsible for doing that. Instead, we get this, the [Walter Reed](http://edition.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/02/army.secretary/index.html) boondoggle, inadequate supplies of body armor, etc. etc. Everything about this war is fucked from beginning to end. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2007, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714/20 "2007-12-05T13:27:32Z")
I’m still no more sympathetic than the last time a sob-story about a bonusless wounded GI came out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-demands-wounded-vets-refund-part-of-their-signing-bonuses/428714.md?page=2)