# Pentagon launches investigation of misconduct against Sen. Mark Kelly **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 24, 2025, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101 "2025-11-24T18:41:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/101 "2025-11-26T15:26:48Z")
This is about courage. It’s one thing to know your rights and wrongs. It’s another to have the courage to _act_ on them when doing so will cause you harm. The Senators are giving cover to help someone who might want to act the ability to do so - we got your back. The Trump administration is saying I dare you to act, we will destroy you. Just look what we are doing to sitting US Senators who tried to be courageous. Nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/102 "2025-11-26T15:55:20Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > The idiot trump literally posted a picture of the West Point Plaque which states “should orders and the law ever conflict, our officers must obey the law”. I wonder what would’ve happened if Kelly had read that, in full or just the sentence starting with 'Our American Code…", instead. I’m sure plenty of people on the right, including Trump, would’ve reacted to it (in the same way) before anyone has a chance to tell them what it was. I’m sure they’d still investigate him, but I think it would have an even greater chance of going nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/103 "2025-11-26T16:08:22Z")
Probably the same way the folks on the right reacted to NPR tweeting out the Declaration of Independence, saying it was left-wing propaganda: > **[Some thought NPR tweeted 'propaganda.' It was the Declaration of Independence.](https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/nation-world/2017/07/05/some-thought-npr-tweeted-propaganda-it-was-declaration-independence/15762140007/)** > > For about 20 minutes Tuesday, NPR traveled back to 1776. > To echo its 29-year on-air tradition,the public radio network’s main Twitter account tweeted out the Declaration of Independence, line by li… That was back in 2017, the right has only gotten nuttier since then. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/104 "2025-11-26T16:23:41Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I wonder what would’ve happened if Kelly had read that, in full or just the sentence starting with 'Our American Code…", instead. I’m sure plenty of people on the right, including Trump, would’ve reacted to it (in the same way) before anyone has a chance to tell them what it was. Yes! I even posted this same thing buried in one of the numerous threads. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/105 "2025-11-26T16:51:35Z")
“Sargent, form a squad and rob that bank.” Perfectly legal according to this administration. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/106 "2025-11-26T17:00:56Z")
OT, but of course we all know that what really prevents war crimes is a free press. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/107 "2025-11-26T17:09:53Z")
Side question inspired by this thread and many others just like it: has there ever, in the entire course of American history, ever been an administration so grotesquely evil, so relentlessly corrupt, and staffed by so many gross incompetents in senior positions chosen only for their loyalty to Dear Leader? I don’t think there has ever been anything even remotely close. We are truly in uncharted waters where literally anything could happen, so in light of a compliant and ineffectual Congress and a Supreme Court that may likely be the same, no safeguard or precaution would be out of line no matter how crazy it may sound. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/108 "2025-11-26T17:12:19Z")
No. Thankfully, we’ve never had an administration staffed by such incompetent buffoons as well. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/109 "2025-11-26T21:49:42Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > “Sargent, form a squad and rob that bank.” > > Perfectly legal according to this administration. Don’t let Agent Orange see _Kelly’s Heroes_… ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2025, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/110 "2025-11-26T22:10:17Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Don’t let Agent Orange see _Kelly’s Heroes_… He’d just load the Sherman with paint, and forget real ammo. Woof, Woof. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/111 "2025-11-27T02:02:43Z")
Today’s headlines: [CNN: Hegseth focuses on potential punishments for Sen. Kelly](https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/26/politics/hegseth-kelly-unlawful-orders-video) [ABC: Sen. Kelly says Pete Hegseth ‘totally unqualified’](https://abcnews.go.com/US/sen-kelly-pete-hegseth-totally-unqualified-after-bashed/story?id=127894384) The phrase “totally unqualified” sounds to me to meet the “contemptuous words” standard of what is unacceptable per Article 88. Kelly said that on "Jimmy Kimmel Live,” which does not sound like congressional speech and debate. And I do not see SCOTUS wanting to interpret the law in favor or a Democratic Party senator, should this get that far. Brave man, Kelly. P.S. However, it seems from my first link in this post that Hegseth does not want to punish Kelly anywhere near as harshly as his boss wants. A reduction in pension is not what DJT is looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/112 "2025-11-27T02:30:23Z")
And former general Michael Flynn called for a military coup in the wake of the 2020 election. If we’re gonna get crazy, let’s get fucking crazy. Enforcing the UCMJ on retired military is a fucking stupid idea with massive fallout potential, and anyone with un-pickled brain cells knows it. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/113 "2025-11-27T02:56:43Z")
Part of this discussion is going to be unlawful command influence. This is from my last CNN link: > [@](#): > > It would also be an uphill battle for the administration, VanLandingham and other legal experts said, in large part because Hegseth’s public statements deriding Kelly’s video appear to be a clear-cut case of “unlawful command influence,” in which a superior commander implies or dictates a predetermined outcome for a military trial and thus makes a fair hearing impossible. If true, great! I agree with Chisquirrel! I want Kelly to get off, not just for him personally, but because I see this as part of the path to consolidation of Trump’s dictatorship. However, I question that unlawful command influence applies here. This is from [Article 37 of the UCMJ](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/837): > [@](#): > > No person subject to this chapter may attempt to coerce or, by any unauthorized means, attempt to influence the action of a court-martial or any other [military](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=10-USC-1416125171-1257414366&term_occur=999&term_src=title:10:subtitle:A:part:II:chapter:47:subchapter:VII:section:837) tribunal or any member thereof, in reaching the findings or sentence in any case, or the action of any convening, approving, or reviewing authority or preliminary hearing officer with respect to such acts taken pursuant to this chapter as prescribed by the President. Note what I bolded. It is my claim, or my fear, that the only people subject to the command influence chapter, are uniformed military personnel. So outrageous command influence is legal so long as it comes from civilians like Trump and Hegseth. Someone please tell me why I am wrong. ---
**Author:** ![abcdefghij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@abcdefghij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abcdefghij)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/114 "2025-11-27T03:00:56Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Note what I bolded. It is my claim, or my fear, that the only people subject to the command influence chapter, are uniformed military personnel. So outrageous command influence is legal so long as it comes from civilians like Trump and Hegseth. Someone please tell me why I am wrong. Nope. [Obama exerted ‘unlawful command influence’ in speaking on military sexual assault, judge says](https://www.politico.com/blogs/politico44/2013/06/obama-exerted-unlawful-command-influence-in-speaking-on-military-sexual-assault-judge-says-166288) ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/115 "2025-11-27T03:14:39Z")
Hegseth’s a former military officer, just like Kelly. If Kelly can get recalled and court martialed for Article 88, so can Hegseth, who had some pretty contemptuous words about Senator Kelly (because he still doesn’t understand fucking technology). Like I said, we can get fucking crazy. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/116 "2025-11-27T03:25:13Z")
> [@abcdefghij](#): > > Nope. > > [Obama exerted ‘unlawful command influence’ in speaking on military sexual assault, judge says](https://www.politico.com/blogs/politico44/2013/06/obama-exerted-unlawful-command-influence-in-speaking-on-military-sexual-assault-judge-says-166288) I can argue both sides on this. Your example is just what one judge said. The Trump administration would either ignore the lower court, or appeal up to its usually pliant SCOTUS. The other side was just provided by Chisquirrel. If you were to ask me which living American is most likely to be a future SecDef, I’d say Mark Kelly. And I know for a moral certainty that Kelly is too big a man to turn tables. But I hypothesize that Hegseth is a coward worrying about being one day court-martialed by the Democrats. That could explain the statement, in that CNN story, that Hegseth is looking into finding a way to punish Kelly without a court-martial. Of course, there is no way, so long as there is a MAGA president, that Hegseth has to worry about military justice being used against himself. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/117 "2025-11-27T03:28:23Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Hegseth’s a former military officer, just like Kelly. If Kelly can get recalled and court martialed for Article 88, so can Hegseth, who had some pretty contemptuous words about Senator Kelly (because he still doesn’t understand fucking technology). Like I said, we can get fucking crazy. You can see in my last post I am taking this seriously. But just to keep everything clear, Hegseth is, per Wikipedia, retired military. Most former military officers are not retired.. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/118 "2025-11-27T04:13:08Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > The phrase “totally unqualified” sounds to me to meet the “contemptuous words” standard of what is unacceptable per Article 88. Kelly said that on "Jimmy Kimmel Live,” which does not sound like congressional speech and debate. And I do not see SCOTUS wanting to interpret the law in favor or a Democratic Party senator, should this get that far. Seems like if they let a prosecution like this go through, it would effectively ban any retired servicemember from ever holding elected office if they’re not the same party as the incumbent president. I can’t imagine even Alito being comfortable with that. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/119 "2025-11-27T04:40:32Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Most former military officers are not retired.. Kelly retired from the military in 2011. So, again… The only difference is Hegseth retired from the National Guard, where the courts have generally held does not apply the UCMJ after retirement, unlike full service components. Hegseth might be safe because of that double standard. Flynn, however, is not. Hegseth is “trying” to punish Kelly because Trump wants Kelly punished for having the gall to criticize him. Remember, all of Trump’s orders are legal. When the President does it, it’s legal. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2025, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101/120 "2025-11-27T09:56:51Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Remember, all of Trump’s orders are legal. When the President does it, it’s legal. The POTUS is immune to prosecution for acts taken as part of their job, but that’s not the same as everything they do being legal. For example, Trump could order a dozen people to break the law, and they’d all get tossed in jail but Trump would be unscathed. Of course, for a sociopath that suits him just fine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-launches-investigation-of-misconduct-against-sen-mark-kelly/1025101.md?page=7)