# Pentagon lifts ban on women in combat **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156 "2013-01-23T22:52:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/81 "2013-01-25T17:06:30Z")
There are some great articles today addressing this exact announcement, and the fact that Canada (and the US, but unofficially) has been sending women into combat for decades now (sorry, the insert link isn’t working for me right now): [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/25/world/americas/armed-forces-in-canada-resolved-issue-long-ago.html?ref=world&\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/25/world/americas/armed-forces-in-canada-resolved-issue-long-ago.html?ref=world&_r=0) [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/25/us/politics/formally-lifting-a-combat-ban-military-chiefs-stress-equal-opportunity.html?ref=world](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/25/us/politics/formally-lifting-a-combat-ban-military-chiefs-stress-equal-opportunity.html?ref=world) [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/25/us/from-front-lines-women-offer-evidence-on-ability-in-combat.html?ref=global-home](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/25/us/from-front-lines-women-offer-evidence-on-ability-in-combat.html?ref=global-home) When I go into the field with a unit, there are not always segregated areas for everything, but we are all adults and we get by. As far as personal hygiene, I usually prefer to suspend my periods, it’s just easier for me, but if not, that’s what baby wipes are for in the field. I was always expected to carry my own gear (and my part of the section’s stuff, if we are doing that kind of training) and pull my own weight. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/82 "2013-01-25T18:44:23Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Women soldiers may even enrage them more. They’ve already been seeing women soldiers, both from the USA and Parts Elsewhere. The difference is that now those women soldiers, when they’re from the US, will get the ribbons that go with the risk. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/83 "2013-01-25T19:35:47Z")
Lol. Oh noes! Don’t piss off the taliban!!! ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/84 "2013-01-25T19:45:28Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That makes more sense. Plus they could get combat pay. They already do. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/85 "2013-01-25T19:56:05Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > I’m interested to know if barracks and toilets are now to be desegregated. In a fox hole, there isn’t space to have a seperate screened off corner to have a bog. > > I’m also interested to know how the combat soldier is going to deal with periods in the field. > > Lastly, now “equality” has arrived, will women be required to have short haircuts and give up ear rings, or will males be allowed long hair. Barracks are already desegregated in some units. Toilets are still segregated because, despite whatever Great War, trench-warfare fantasy you might imagine modern-day warfare to consist of, the US Army builds somewhat private latrines on even the meanest of COPs. If warfare degenerates into a trench system, having women in Combat Arms or not isn’t going to change that there are always one or two women about, from a supply clerk to a cook to a medic. I’ve never inquired deeply about the subject, but feminine hygeine is a problem that’s already been solved. Women and men have different appearance standards in the military right now. Men don’t wear earrings or wear long hair, and women maintain the same hair-length standards now that they did when my mother served as a nurse in Vietnam. Are there any other uninformed guesses you want to use to slander women in the US Armed Forces that I can clear up for you? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/86 "2013-01-25T19:57:43Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > …I hope combat assignments for women will be voluntary. I’d hate to see women with kids forced into combat. If they want to volunteer then thats their choice. They’ve been voluntary for men for 40 yrs. > [@Becky2844](#): > > Young females in Israel have been serving mandatory stints in the military, just like males, since the nation’s conception IIRC. I’m not sure if they’re involved in front-line combat but I wouldn’t doubt it… They have to volunteer for combat and serve 3 yrs insead of 2 just like the men do. They also have to serve in the reserves afterwards. > [@blindboyard](#): > > What’s important is that the Supreme Court used this as their reason for not allowing equality in this area, men not being drafted or women being drafted. Therefore it should now be time to require women to register with the Selective Service board. Not that I expect it to happen, but that’s why it’s seen as going hand in hand. It’s much more likely that SS registration be abolished than women made to register. SCOTUS can stike down the registration requirment, but it would take an act of Congress to register women. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/87 "2013-01-27T10:06:51Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > If they choose not to take advantage of the various methods of suspending their period, I’d imagine they’d deal with it in the same way that combat soldiers deal with pooping. It takes approximately 30 seconds, twice daily, for me to “deal with my period.” In my case, I do that for four days every three months, or about twelve days a year. So for me, we’d be looking at twelve minutes a year. > > You are really showing a basic ignorance of basic facts of how women actually work here. You realize women do long distance trekking, climb Everest, and do all kinds of tough outdoorsy stuff, right? I know that’s not the same as combat, but really, we’ve got the logistics of this worked out. Really! Lucky you. Surely you aren’t claiming all women are the same, are you? My wife has irregular periods and they can last between two days and over a week, plus she suffers severely from PMT. I asked from an interest point of view as to how women in combat situations manage, not trying to denigrate women. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/88 "2013-01-27T10:22:04Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Barracks are already desegregated in some units. Toilets are still segregated because, despite whatever Great War, trench-warfare fantasy you might imagine modern-day warfare to consist of, the US Army builds somewhat private latrines on even the meanest of COPs. > > If warfare degenerates into a trench system, having women in Combat Arms or not isn’t going to change that there are always one or two women about, from a supply clerk to a cook to a medic. I’ve never inquired deeply about the subject, but feminine hygeine is a problem that’s already been solved. > > Women and men have different appearance standards in the military right now. Men don’t wear earrings or wear long hair, and women maintain the same hair-length standards now that they did when my mother served as a nurse in Vietnam. > > Are there any other uninformed guesses you want to use to slander women in the US Armed Forces that I can clear up for you? Perhaps you should learn something about combat in the field before launching on a rant. In Vietnam ( watch Platoon if you don’t remember that one ) troops in the field dug a foxhole when they stopped patrolling for the night. Or do you think they all slept in bulletproof cabins that they carried on their backs? Or, maybe you think the days of patrolling are over? Why do men and women have different standards of appearance? If women want to do men’s jobs, then they should have the same standards. Any less is hypocritical. You are obviously one messed up in the head puppy if you think I was slandering anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Lucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@Lucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucretia)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/89 "2013-01-27T10:45:37Z")
I’m sure it will come as a huge relief to the combat-wounded women who were on my OR tables in Afghanistan that they’re allowed to be in combat now. This is not a change, this is an acknowledgement of something that’s already happening. Has been for years. Women have been patrolling on convoys, being helicopter gunners, pilots, pulling security, been shot at and have shot back, been on FOBS, COPS, outposts, etc, etc, for years and years. The time to get outraged about this, were you so inclined, was during the first Gulf War. Anyone who’s doing so now is, quite frankly, simply showing their ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/90 "2013-01-27T11:29:44Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > Really! Lucky you. Surely you aren’t claiming all women are the same, are you? > My wife has irregular periods and they can last between two days and over a week, plus she suffers severely from PMT. > I asked from an interest point of view as to how women in combat situations manage, not trying to denigrate women. Of course not all women are the same. But no one’s saying that all women are going to become combat soldiers - there’s a lot of self-selection going on as to who will even attempt to get into those positions, let alone the selection process to see who will succeed. I’m pretty sure that if a woman had very long, irregular periods and debilitating symptoms that couldn’t be controlled somehow then she likely wouldn’t be someone who would want to try to become a SEAL. There are various medical options to control menstruation - for example, using birth control control pills to decrease the frequency or eliminate it entirely. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/91 "2013-01-27T15:21:33Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > Really! Lucky you. Surely you aren’t claiming all women are the same, are you? > My wife has irregular periods and they can last between two days and over a week, plus she suffers severely from PMT. > I asked from an interest point of view as to how women in combat situations manage, not trying to denigrate women. You asked what the Pentagon was going to do about soldiers with periods, not what Pentagon was going to do about soldiers unusually heavy or difficult to manage periods. A solider with a period is not biggie. A medically normal period is trivially easy to handle, and not more disruptive than the other messy and annoying bodily functions we all have to do. A soldier with an unusually heavy or difficult to manage period would probably not be medically cleared for a combat position. This is not at all different than a soldier with unusually difficult to manage bowel movements, or unusually difficult to manage mucus production, or any of the thousands of health conditions that can disqualify people from combat positions. Do you honestly think that anyone is saying every female human being in America should be brought to the front lines? Of course not. Every soldier, regardless of gender, is disqualified from filling combat positions if they have a health conditions that precludes that. But a normal period? Not one of those health conditions. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/92 "2013-01-27T16:32:07Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve spent most of my life reading books on WWI, WWII and Korea. Whoa, whoa, whoa, _whoa_! Everyone, hold the fuckin’ _phone_! Didn’t you see this? **aceplace57** has _read books_\*. Clearly y’all need to just shut up unless you can get LeVar Burton all up in this bitch. - [sub]On wars that occurred more than half a century ago, too. Good thing there hasn’t been any big changes in military technology, equipment, strategies or anything. Phew. [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/93 "2013-01-27T17:05:03Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That makes more sense. Plus they could get combat pay. > > They said tonight on ABC News that women will have to meet the same physical fitness tests as men to join the infantry or special forces. I hope they stick to that. I recall years ago that they said the same thing when women became firefighters. It didn’t take long and the fitness standards were lowered for everybody. They even changed some of the firefighting procedures because a single woman couldn’t control the high pressure fire hoses. They also changed how fireman carried injured people from buildings because the women firefighters weren’t as strong. Shows like 20/20 and 60 Minutes did features on women firefighters years ago. I see they are doing the [same thing in the UK](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375381/Fire-service-strength-fitness-tests-relaxed-allow-women-firefighters.html). Slight hi-jack. They did the same thing for some municipalities in Canada. Even worse they had quotas for hires based on genitalia and skin colour. You’d get 1500 white males that would pass, 100 women that would pass and 500 minorities that would pass. If they we’re going to hire 3 firefighters in a city they would have to pick the top from each column. Instead of the best out of all of them combined. When it comes to saving lives, I don’t care what colour or what’s dangling between your legs, I do expect them to hire the best though. Not so because “it’s not fair”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/94 "2013-01-27T17:42:50Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Whoa, whoa, whoa, _whoa_! Everyone, hold the fuckin’ _phone_! Didn’t you see this? **aceplace57** has _read books_\*. Clearly y’all need to just shut up unless you can get LeVar Burton all up in this bitch. I think reading books on the subject is slightly more credible than citing Oliver Stone movies, however. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/95 "2013-01-28T03:16:21Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > Slight hi-jack. > > They did the same thing for some municipalities in Canada. Even worse they had quotas for hires based on genitalia and skin colour. You’d get 1500 white males that would pass, 100 women that would pass and 500 minorities that would pass. If they we’re going to hire 3 firefighters in a city they would have to pick the top from each column. Instead of the best out of all of them combined. When it comes to saving lives, I don’t care what colour or what’s dangling between your legs, I do expect them to hire the best though. Not so because “it’s not fair”. :rolleyes: And now? _They’re all dead._ ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/96 "2013-01-28T04:58:41Z")
> [@Lucretia](#): > > I’m sure it will come as a huge relief to the combat-wounded women who were on my OR tables in Afghanistan that they’re allowed to be in combat now. This is not a change, this is an acknowledgement of something that’s already happening. Has been for years. Women have been patrolling on convoys, being helicopter gunners, pilots, pulling security, been shot at and have shot back, been on FOBS, COPS, outposts, etc, etc, for years and years. The time to get outraged about this, were you so inclined, was during the first Gulf War. Anyone who’s doing so now is, quite frankly, simply showing their ignorance. No one with any common sense is denying that women have been in combat situations for many years. However, going deliberately into harms way as they do in the infantry etc is a completely different situation to being in a position in which an attack might occur. My days of being potentially sent into combat are long over, so I don’t have a stake in this myself, but has anyone in authority asked the front line soldiers if THEY think it’s OK? After all, they are the ones that will die if the politicians get it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/97 "2013-01-28T05:11:50Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You asked what the Pentagon was going to do about soldiers with periods, not what Pentagon was going to do about soldiers unusually heavy or difficult to manage periods. > > A solider with a period is not biggie. A medically normal period is trivially easy to handle, and not more disruptive than the other messy and annoying bodily functions we all have to do. > > A soldier with an unusually heavy or difficult to manage period would probably not be medically cleared for a combat position. This is not at all different than a soldier with unusually difficult to manage bowel movements, or unusually difficult to manage mucus production, or any of the thousands of health conditions that can disqualify people from combat positions. Do you honestly think that anyone is saying every female human being in America should be brought to the front lines? Of course not. Every soldier, regardless of gender, is disqualified from filling combat positions if they have a health conditions that precludes that. > > But a normal period? Not one of those health conditions. Thank you for answering my question in a factual manner. However, do you think that we men know about periods? Other than my wife’s difficult situation, the most I know about periods is from the vast amount of advertising that we are subjected to, which gives the impression that every woman has to carry large amounts of pads or tampons about to cope with the blood flow that afflicts them at any time. I, and I’m sure most men, discuss many things with women, but periods and anything to do with them is not something that I have ever had a deep and meaningful conversation about. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/98 "2013-01-28T07:40:18Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > Thank you for answering my question in a factual manner. > However, do you think that we men know about periods? > Other than my wife’s difficult situation, the most I know about periods is from the vast amount of advertising that we are subjected to, which gives the impression that every woman has to carry large amounts of pads or tampons about to cope with the blood flow that afflicts them at any time. > I, and I’m sure most men, discuss many things with women, but periods and anything to do with them is not something that I have ever had a deep and meaningful conversation about. It’s not secret information, guy. If you don’t know, it’s because you don’t feel like finding out. That means you don’t get to burst in on the women infantry scene blubbering about latrine trenches flooded with menstrual blood (or whatever ridiculous shit you think is gonna happen) without us people on here rolling our eyes and telling you to read a damn book. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/99 "2013-01-28T09:40:06Z")
> [@colander](#): > > It’s not secret information, guy. If you don’t know, it’s because you don’t feel like finding out. That means you don’t get to burst in on the women infantry scene blubbering about latrine trenches flooded with menstrual blood (or whatever ridiculous shit you think is gonna happen) without us people on here rolling our eyes and telling you to read a damn book. Da\_n right I don’t want to find out about the intricacies of women’s periods; what do you think I am, a girly boy? All I want to know is how they deal with it on patrol up country a hundred miles from the shops with no resupply for a month, and everything they possess is soaked through for a week. I can just imagine the Chindits sending out an emergency call for a pill resupply, LOL. BTW, there is a difference between having a bog and a period, despite what some on here have claimed. After we men finished, we don’t keep leaking all day- dunno about wimmin. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156/100 "2013-01-28T10:32:21Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > dunno about wimmin. QFT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pentagon-lifts-ban-on-women-in-combat/648156.md?page=6)