Pentagon lifts ban on women in combat

[Hello_Again]

@Doggo

<women used to pull plows when there wasn’t a draft animal around.>
Seriously! When was the last time women in America pulled a plow, and we are talking about women in America, not in Africa or Asia.
Somehow, I doubt the average modern American woman could plant an acre of rice without giving up, and I don’t see the relevance to combat anyway.

So you believe that women are psychologically unfit for not combat, not physically unfit?

Because otherwise, there’s this thing we call “boot camp” and then later “training” and it exists to take slackass civillians up to standard.

[aruvqan]

@Doggo

<women used to pull plows when there wasn’t a draft animal around.>
Seriously! When was the last time women in America pulled a plow, and we are talking about women in America, not in Africa or Asia.
Somehow, I doubt the average modern American woman could plant an acre of rice without giving up, and I don’t see the relevance to combat anyway.

Ok how about this - when I worked as a machinist, I had to haul around loads of up to 250 pounds of metal stock to get my job done [and yes I could use dollys and chainfalls. I am a tool user. Don’t be stupid.] I regularly schlepped full boxes of bronze valve bodies, and bags of blast media and I rarely bothered asking for help. When I worked in fill, I managed anything from 20# cylinders up to ton cylinders, and filled anything from 15 gallons to 55 gallons and moved the product around. When I kept sheep, I hauled around bales of hay and bags of feed. Yes, women can do hard labor just like any man.

@Hello_Again

So you believe that women are psychologically unfit for not combat, not physically unfit?

Because otherwise, there’s this thing we call “boot camp” and then later “training” and it exists to take slackass civillians up to standard.

No, women are just as able to function in combat as men. There are 600000 WW2 era Soviet women that can attest to it. Not to mention all the women that ended up in combat areas, work in resistance groups.

I am not about to tell Lyudmila Pavlichenko to go back and make me some borscht and to pop out a few babies. [though I do remember a conversation once in a sandbox game the debate on what the kid of she and Simo Hayha would be like.:p]

[Nava]

@aruvqan

No, women are just as able to function in combat as men. There are 600000 WW2 era Soviet women that can attest to it. Not to mention all the women that ended up in combat areas, work in resistance groups.

Easy, aru: Hello Again and you are on the same side, as are 90% of the posts on this thread (and more than that if you take the % in terms of posters). And anyway, apparently Doggo believes that American women are weaker than women from anywhere else, so references to Russian or Spanish or Canadian or French female soldiers don’t count. Now that’s a take on exceptionalism I hadn’t expected to see…

[Marley23]

@Doggo

I just hope that they don’t just let women fill up all the “easy” combat jobs, and expect men to fill all the really dangerous positions. When women take the lead on a patrol when snipers are expected, I’ll accept that women are doing an equal job with the men.

Wow. I was talking to another poster, but I was spot-on here:

@Marley23

I have to say- you haven’t really explained the problem here. You’re just kind of saying “Well I sure hope this doesn’t happen! 'Cause that would be really bad!”

Saying ‘I sure hope this doesn’t happen!’ when there is no reason to think it will happen is an empty and lazy way to make an argument.

@Doggo

Seriously! When was the last time women in America pulled a plow, and we are talking about women in America, not in Africa or Asia.
Somehow, I doubt the average modern American woman could plant an acre of rice without giving up, and I don’t see the relevance to combat anyway.

So is the argument that modern American women (unlike today’s women in other countries) are just too weak for this? Even if that were true, the average woman isn’t joining the Army.

[Doggo]

@Hello_Again

So you believe that women are psychologically unfit for not combat, not physically unfit?

Because otherwise, there’s this thing we call “boot camp” and then later “training” and it exists to take slackass civillians up to standard.

Hi, I’ll address that question to you because you wrote it first, but I hope it answers the other posters that have queried my comment.

I don’t believe that women are unfit for combat, provided they meet the physical needs of the role.
What I do believe is that western men aren’t phsychologically able to accept women as equals alongside them in combat, and in a battle, there isn’t room to be concerned about your fellow soldiers.
Whether you like it or not, there is a natural instinct in men to “protect” women, and that could interfere with the requirements of battle.
The other thing that concerns me is the genetic imperative of young men to copulate with females, and I have first hand experience of how that can affect men in a situation where there are a lot of men and only a very few women, and it’s not in a positive manner.

We all know of the abuse that women already receive in the military. How can it do anything but increase if women are put in units of young, testosterone laden warriors?

So, what I believe is that men aren’t ready to serve with women in combat, not that women can’t do the job. As male combat soldiers are the majority, the powers that be have to take their attitudes into account, whether it’s politically correct or not.

I guess it’s going to happen anyway, but I expect the number of “abuse” incidences to increase.

[Doggo]

@aruvqan

Ok how about this - when I worked as a machinist, I had to haul around loads of up to 250 pounds of metal stock to get my job done [and yes I could use dollys and chainfalls. I am a tool user. Don’t be stupid.] I regularly schlepped full boxes of bronze valve bodies, and bags of blast media and I rarely bothered asking for help. When I worked in fill, I managed anything from 20# cylinders up to ton cylinders, and filled anything from 15 gallons to 55 gallons and moved the product around. When I kept sheep, I hauled around bales of hay and bags of feed. Yes, women can do hard labor just like any man.

No, women are just as able to function in combat as men. There are 600000 WW2 era Soviet women that can attest to it. Not to mention all the women that ended up in combat areas, work in resistance groups.

I am not about to tell Lyudmila Pavlichenko to go back and make me some borscht and to pop out a few babies. [though I do remember a conversation once in a sandbox game the debate on what the kid of she and Simo Hayha would be like.:p]

I never said that some women aren’t strong. My wife has to carry heavy loads at her workplace, and her sister builds roads.
Asian women have always done construction work, and many building sites in Singapore in the 70s were staffed by women old enough to be my granny, carrying heavy loads of bricks.

To say that women can’t be in combat because they are weak is meaningless.
It has also been proven in Abu Graib that women are just as capable of being nasty as men, so mental attitude is not a disqualification either.

My objection has been stated in my previous reply.

[EverwonderWhy]

@Doggo

What I do believe is that western men aren’t phsychologically able to accept women as equals alongside them in combat, and in a battle, there isn’t room to be concerned about your fellow soldiers.
Whether you like it or not, there is a natural instinct in men to “protect” women, and that could interfere with the requirements of battle.
The other thing that concerns me is the genetic imperative of young men to copulate with females, and I have first hand experience of how that can affect men in a situation where there are a lot of men and only a very few women, and it’s not in a positive manner.

We all know of the abuse that women already receive in the military. How can it do anything but increase if women are put in units of young, testosterone laden warriors?

So, what I believe is that men aren’t ready to serve with women in combat, not that women can’t do the job.
.

Seems to me like the men who can’t change their misogynist attitudes will just have to learn to cope or be slaughtered either trying to “protect” their female servicemembers or trying to copulate with them. Let’s let natural selection do it’s thing :rolleyes: Probably a good thing for the rest of the civilized world if these cavemen get weeded out of the genetic pool as soon as possible.