# “People are Domesticated Animals Now”: Man allegedly Reveals Why there no longer biologically adult males in the world **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 1, 2023, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979 "2023-04-01T10:42:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/21 "2023-04-01T15:46:28Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > I camped enough in my youth that I completely used up all my desire to go camping. Same here, but it only took one night. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/22 "2023-04-01T16:40:01Z")
See, some people learn more quickly than others. I blame the peer pressure (our friends **loved** hiking and camping). ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/23 "2023-04-01T17:13:09Z")
its just a description of whats said on the youtube video things like : In his now-viral TikTok video, Hermes begins by stating, “The reason that there is such a void of male role models for young men is because we literally do not have adult males in our population anymore.” He explains although there are “grown men” everywhere, he doesn’t actually see them as “physiologically adult human males.” In a short biology lesson, Hermes explains the organism Neoteny and how it retains juvenile traits as it ages if it doesn’t get stressed out enough. In simpler terms, if someone lives in an environment that is too “easy,” they’re less likely to develop adult traits. He shares his personal experience of attending grad night at Disneyland during high school with students from inner-city schools, where he observed that they looked significantly older than him and his schoolmates. In his now-viral TikTok video, Hermes begins by stating, “The reason that there is such a void of male role models foryoung men is because we literally do not have adult males in our population anymore.” He explains although there are “grown men” everywhere, he doesn’t actually see them as “physiologically adult human males.” In a short biology lesson, Hermes explains the organism Neoteny and how it retains juvenile traits as it ages if it doesn’t get stressed out enough. In simpler terms, if someone lives in an environment that is too “easy,” they’re less likely to develop adult traits. He shares his personal experience of attending grad night at Disneyland during high school with students from inner-city schools, where he observed that they looked significantly older than him and his schoolmates. According to Hermes, the reason for this is their exposure to a more stressful environment, which led to an upregulation of their adrenal glands and resulted in higher testosterone levels. To reinforce his argument, he cites the example of a domesticated pig that, if released into the wild for six months, develops thick, curly hair and tusks, resembling a feral boar. He argues that This adaptation is a response to the pig’s exposure to a more challenging and stressful environment. Hermes goes on to provide another example related to breeding wolves and foxes, explaining that selecting for more passive traits can lead to the development of floppy ears, curly hair, and spots in these animals. “Now, most human beings are domesticated animals,” he claims, “especially if you live in the United States.” He further elaborates on what he means by a domesticated animal: “You just consume, consume media, consume pills, consume food You are domesticated livestock. And then you use your free time to then generate more labor and wealth for rich people.” He continues, “the reason young men have no one to look up to is because a little piglet wouldn’t look up to a pig. It wants to be a f…ng boar. And all it sees around its pigs.” “It’s all f…ked,” Hermes ends the video. ## **HERME’S “DOMESTICATED ANIMAL” THEORY GARNERED A LOT OF ATTENTION FROM COMMENTERS.** “This must be why the military ages men so much😭,” one concluded. “Do things that make you uncomfortable. Cold showers, train hard, intermittent fast and work hard,” a second suggested. “This guy has some understanding of the biological processes but he’s kinda stretching the concepts to fit his argument,” a third argued. “On my way to go stress out my man so he gets manlier 🥰,” a fourth shared. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/24 "2023-04-01T17:38:10Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > In a short biology lesson, Hermes explains the organism Neoteny and how it retains juvenile traits as it ages if it doesn’t get stressed out enough. His “biology lesson” is seriously lacking. Neoteny is not caused by lack of stress. Humans exhibit it in all genders, and Homo sapiens in particular has been doing so ever since the species got started, whatever conditions we’ve been living in. I don’t care how much attention he got from commenters, whether or not you shout it at me in bold caps. There are a whole lot of ignorant people out there, and many of them are online. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/25 "2023-04-01T17:40:16Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I don’t care how much attention he got from commenters, whether or not you shout it at me in bold caps. I don’t think that was @nightshadea’s bold, I think that was just the way it got cut and pasted. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/26 "2023-04-01T17:53:59Z")
All I know is that after we came down from summiting Mount Whitney and got back to Whitney Portal, I paid 5 bucks for a hot shower and bought a beer and a bag of Cheetos. Bliss. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/27 "2023-04-01T18:01:33Z")
I sound my barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world Walt Whitman ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/28 "2023-04-01T18:12:54Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > this guy is supposedly using biology to say hardship, toil and misery makes you an adult I’d agree with him if I’m allowed to insert some modifiers and specifiers. Hardship, toil, and misery make one a patriarchally constructed adult. Patriarchy is by and large a response to scarcity and stress. It’s all about control and adversarial fight-or-flight state of being, and totally not about living at ease in trust and cooperation. Doesn’t make it a worthless adaptation but it’s not pleasant to be in, and I continue to be amazed that its defenders don’t address the matter of why the fuck anyone would want to keep it / go back to it / reverse our progress away from it. Like “oh we were so much better off when we were miserable and men were men”. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/29 "2023-04-01T18:35:27Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Doesn’t make it a worthless adaptation but it’s not pleasant to be in, and I continue to be amazed that its defenders don’t address the matter of why the fuck anyone would want to keep it / go back to it / reverse our progress away from it. Like “oh we were so much better off when we were miserable and men were men”. WTF? All you have to do is look at the life span of domesticated animals vs wild animals and realize that domestication really isn’t that bad a thing. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/30 "2023-04-01T19:00:39Z")
I mention this to our three critters, two dogs and a cat, when I’m feeding them. "Okay – I get it. You want to cash in your ‘domesticated’ chit. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/31 "2023-04-01T19:28:46Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Same here, but it only took one night. I got my fill of camping in the Boy Scouts. The scout leader had been in the Army in WW2, and thought it was good training for us to go on 10 mile hikes in winter (In North Carolina, so it wasn’t too bad) carrying our tents in our packs. I decided that it wasn’t fun. Hotel rooms, and cars are fine and wonderful things. I guess I’m domesticated. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/32 "2023-04-01T22:07:59Z")
but it made you a male adult! so I guess it’s solace for your “suffering”? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/33 "2023-04-01T22:11:59Z")
Well, not all of us are domesticated animals. [![](https://images.news18.com/ibnlive/uploads/2021/01/1610247690_us-rioter-1.jpg?impolicy=website&width=534&height=356) ](https://images.news18.com/ibnlive/uploads/2021/01/1610247690_us-rioter-1.jpg?impolicy=website&width=534&height=356) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/34 "2023-04-01T22:34:34Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > I say he’s full of shit and there’s more to being an adult than this jackass supposes or am I wrong? Also, I’m wondering if the “biology” is real or just woo like in most of these cases You are not wrong. The individual has no understanding of biology and does not understand what neoteny is. To expand on @thorny_locust’s post: neoteny is a species characteristic. Ironically he is correct though that excess stress speeds up the biological clock and ages us faster, shortening our telomeres and having us suffer diseases of aging sooner. If “physiologically adult” means dead then he has a point. I think he also confuses pig boar hybrids with feral pigs. Physiologically adult is a phrase without clear meaning. OTOH, I do think that psychologically we are maturing later, keeping the _portion_ of our lives in child/teen roles fairly constant as lifetimes have gone up. I don’t see that as a bad thing. I think we had a thread on that at some point. And modern humans experience plenty of stress. Often too much and too constant. I suspect he gets some love from incels. I would however argue in favor of _some_ of the bottom line conclusions despite the idiocy: Exposure to nature, even just trees and hearing [birds](https://www.today.com/today/amp/rcna54341), is good for us psychologically. There is an optimal amount of stress, which is more than none. Stress is required for growth and maintenance. Cognitively if we are not challenging ourselves we atrophy our minds. Physically stressing our cardiorespiratory and strength systems makes us fitter. In both we also cannot overdo it or go without opportunities for recovery and repair without causing harms. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/35 "2023-04-01T23:30:36Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > but it made you a male adult! so I guess it’s solace for your “suffering”? For debatable values of adult. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/36 "2023-04-01T23:59:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’ve been musing about something similar - I think the reason people are so unhappy these days is because we live a highly complex, technological life that is far removed from nature and the wild. > > Not saying that we should all strip naked and live an agrarian lifestyle. But there is something about the modern-day life in a big city that is deeply unnatural. It has its perks, of course, but there’s always some deep longing for a simpler, primitive life. > > So yes, we’ve been domesticated, and there’s a certain part of our brain that doesn’t like it. I don’t know. Whenever you see somebody talking about their philosophy of what’s wrong with the world, you can usually take a look at the speaker and see that it’s not the world that’s the problem. These people aren’t failures because the world is conspiring against them. They’re failures because of their own flaws. If they were to practice a little self-awareness, they might begin to understand where their problems are coming from. And if they did, they’d find that unlike the world they have the capacity to change themselves. And if they did do some work on improving themselves, they might find they achieve more success in life without anything in the world around them changing. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/37 "2023-04-02T00:21:26Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I think he also confuses pig boar hybrids with feral pigs. And/or possibly confuses adult intact boars with sows, gilts, immature boars, and barrows. > [@DSeid](#): > > Exposure to nature, even just trees and hearing [birds](https://www.today.com/today/amp/rcna54341), is good for us psychologically. This is true. For some people it’s essential. But it’s also not necessarily stressful; and for those who need it worst, it’s liable to be massively stress-reducing instead of inducing. Sure, rough ground’s less comfortable to sleep on than a mattress (though those are hardly the only choices); but there’s a whole shitload of stress involved in modern city life, as well as, for those who are bothered by it, in being continuously indoors with no natural light and/or a lot of artificial sound. Different people are affected more by different types of stress. I’d much rather find an occasional ant on me, or an occasional rock behind my back when I lie down, than be beeped at, or crowded, or expected to stay awake and functional in rooms with no windows. But that hasn’t got anything to do with whether men, women, or anybody else become adults or not. > [@DSeid](#): > > There is an optimal amount of stress, which is more than none. Stress is required for growth and maintenance. Cognitively if we are not challenging ourselves we atrophy our minds. Physically stressing our cardiorespiratory and strength systems makes us fitter. In both we also cannot overdo it or go without opportunities for recovery and repair without causing harms. This is also true. But again a) it applies to all genders b) it’s got nothing to do with neoteny. And c) it has to be the right kind of stress (as well as within the beneficial range of amount) for the particular type of thing you’re trying to improve. Children who eat only soft foods don’t develop their lower jaws properly, so their adult teeth are less likely to fit in their mouths than if they’d done more chewing earlier; but no amount of chewing is going to improve their ability to tell bullshit from science. Learning to clean up after oneself is good for certain types of social maturity, but it won’t improve one’s tact, or one’s ability to use a hammer. Learning to swing a hammer hard and accurately is good for aim and arm muscles, but no use in itself for learning not to hit people in the head with one without a damn good reason, or for being able to tell what’s a damn good reason. And so on. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If they were to practice a little self-awareness, they might begin to understand where their problems are coming from. And if they did, they’d find that unlike the world they have the capacity to change themselves. And if they did do some work on improving themselves, they might find they achieve more success in life without anything in the world around them changing. Sometimes it is the world around them that needs changing. But most of these people aren’t, say, Rosa Parks. And she did something about it – and did something relevant about it. Sometimes, on a much smaller scale, people are miserable because they’re in the wrong job, or because they need to be outdoors more, or because they need to be indoors more, or for any of a whole lot of reasons that actually are a misfit between themselves and their environment. But again: if you need to be outside more, try to adjust your life so that you can be outdoors more. Don’t go around declaring that nobody’s a grownup because everybody’s not doing what you, personally, need to do. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/38 "2023-04-02T00:33:17Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > but no amount of chewing is going to improve their ability to tell bullshit from science. So you’re saying that fans of that “viral post” have been chewing a lot? 😀 Obviously you are correct on all counts. ---
**Author:** ![bobsmom101](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobsmom101/32/2867_2.png) [@bobsmom101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobsmom101)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/39 "2023-04-02T01:19:33Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > this guy is supposedly using biology to say hardship, toil and misery makes you an adult It follows that you will find the most “manly adult men” in homeless camps, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/40 "2023-04-02T09:50:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Physiologically adult is a phrase without clear meaning. In the context of biology I would assume adult means sexual maturation, as in physical developments necessary to reproduce. In which case it is patently false that there are no adult human males in the world. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979.md?page=3)