# “People are Domesticated Animals Now”: Man allegedly Reveals Why there no longer biologically adult males in the world **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 1, 2023, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979 "2023-04-01T10:42:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/41 "2023-04-02T10:34:14Z")
Maybe that writer needs one of those area-specific tanning devices shown on [Tucker Carlson’s silly videos.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IcxLQeh6J6A) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/42 "2023-04-02T13:22:19Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > I say he’s full of shit and there’s more to being an adult than this jackass supposes or am I wrong? It’s true that domesticated animals (dogs compared to wolves, cows compared to aurochs, etc) have many common traits: relatively larger eyes, heads, etc compared to adult members of the wild species. It’s also true that if you compare us (or our early hominid ancestors) to chimps, some of these traits pop up. Of course, this is a process that took thousands of years, and happened about a million years ago. So this guy’s Tik Tok came along a little late to help. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/43 "2023-04-02T13:34:52Z")
What’s wrong with having bigger eyes than your ancestors? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/44 "2023-04-02T13:36:48Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > What’s wrong with having bigger eyes than your ancestors?. Everyone knows that manly men have tiny, beady eyes. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/45 "2023-04-02T15:38:32Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > In the context of biology I would assume adult means sexual maturation, as in physical developments necessary to reproduce. It’s a reasonable stab. Yet individuals of species (and some hybrids) can be mature and sterile. Biologically if one was talking about sexual maturity one would refer to just that: sexual maturity. In humans we have a sexual maturity rating of pubertal phases, the Tanner Scale. But a hyperadrogenized male is not a “more physiologically adult” one, nor is a male with low testosterone levels less so. Nah there’s not even a confused kernel there. My wonder though is, @nightshadea, why did this specific load of crap hook you into paying it any attention at all? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/46 "2023-04-02T15:47:29Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > My wonder though is, @nightshadea, why did this specific load of crap hook you into paying it any attention at all? Yeah, the basic headline here is: Another nitwit comes up with his own fantasy of what “BEING A MAN” is - reality has a different opinion on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/47 "2023-04-02T15:51:57Z")
Would also add “meaningful community” to the list of beneficial things that may be missing from many lives. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/48 "2023-04-02T15:54:54Z")
Don’t pigs just have tusks that farmers tend to keep trimmed for safety reasons? Saying that an escaped pig will grow tusks is like saying a man stranded on an island will grow a beard. It’s true but the same would be true if they were kept in a climate-controlled shed and fed Hot Pockets for nine months. Edit: Apparently neutered hogs don’t really grow tusks but I don’t think a six month vacation in the woods will change that for either end of the pig. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/49 "2023-04-02T17:06:30Z")
Hermes.the.cynic is a literal whacko who posts [extreme nonsense](https://www.instagram.com/p/CikojXJotZr/) to garner views. You can even find [TikTok videos that are sanely and coherently exposing his idiocy](https://www.instagram.com/p/CikojXJotZr/). Why are we feeding the troll? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/50 "2023-04-02T19:37:45Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Hardship, toil, and misery make one a patriarchally constructed adult. Exactly. Neoteny has jack squat to do with it. He’s taking the position that a real adult man is someone who acts and looks like the archetypes of the Real Adult Tough Man. I kind of get a vibe that when he talked about when met the other teenagers from inner-city schools, it was not so much that they looked older but that he perceived them as looking/acting/talking _tougher_, more “macho” – something having more to do with how they carried themselves, not how they looked. Those other teenagers on a simple yearbook picture probably look like every other similar aged teenager. > [@AHunter3](#): > > I continue to be amazed that its defenders don’t address the matter of why the fuck anyone would want to keep it / go back to it / reverse our progress away from it. Like “oh we were so much better off when we were miserable and men were men”. WTF? Certain segments of the population are concerned that Their Kind is growing decadent and _weak_ and will not do well when inevitably Things Get Real and we’ll _need_ to be tough. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Neoteny is not caused by lack of stress. Humans exhibit it in all genders, and Homo sapiens in particular has been doing so ever since the species got started, whatever conditions we’ve been living in. Exactly – humans _are_ neotenic but that’s just general evolution, he’s confusing inherited characteristics with _acquired_ characteristics. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/51 "2023-04-02T19:54:11Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > Neoteny is not caused by lack of stress. Humans exhibit it in all genders, and Homo sapiens in particular has been doing so ever since the species got started, whatever conditions we’ve been living in. > > Exactly – humans _are_ neotenic but that’s just general evolution, he’s confusing inherited characteristics with _acquired_ characteristics. It probably predates _sapiens_, neoteny may well be part of what separates the genus _Homo_ from say _Australopithecus_ ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/52 "2023-04-02T20:02:40Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > probably predates _sapiens_, neoteny may well be part of what separates the genus _Homo_ from say _Australopithecus_ That’s actually what I meant by saying “humans . . . homo sapiens in particular”; though I agree that that wasn’t clear because to a lot of people “human” and “homo sapiens” mean the same. I’m not enough of an expert to know which hominin species exhibited how much neoteny; it’s my possibly-not-entirely-accurate impression that most or all showed at least some, but that sapiens exhibits more of it than other species – less brow ridge development etc. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/53 "2023-04-02T20:08:16Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > That’s actually what I meant by saying “humans . . . homo sapiens in particular”; though I agree that that wasn’t clear because to a lot of people “human” and “homo sapiens” mean the same. Oh, no, fair enough, on reread I think that’s my bad. In context I can tell that humans is not just sapiens there. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I’m not enough of an expert to know which hominin species exhibited how much neoteny; it’s my possibly-not-entirely-accurate impression that most or all showed at least some, but that sapiens exhibits more of it than other species – less brow ridge development etc. This is my impression as well! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/54 "2023-04-02T20:13:01Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Everyone knows that manly men have tiny, beady eyes. Well, he’s not wrong on that point. [![](https://www.slashfilm.com/img/gallery/clint-eastwood-had-to-fight-to-make-the-man-with-no-name-a-mystery/l-intro-1672172203.jpg) ](https://www.slashfilm.com/img/gallery/clint-eastwood-had-to-fight-to-make-the-man-with-no-name-a-mystery/l-intro-1672172203.jpg) [![](https://media.mutualart.com/Images/2021_05/12/17/171257588/a549d9a5-d6b8-4214-be76-077b6613efee_570.Jpeg) ](https://media.mutualart.com/Images/2021_05/12/17/171257588/a549d9a5-d6b8-4214-be76-077b6613efee_570.Jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/55 "2023-04-02T20:18:42Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Well, he’s not wrong on that point. > > [https://www.slashfilm.com/img/gallery/clint-eastwood-had-to-fight-to-make-the-man-with-no-name-a-mystery/l-intro-1672172203.jpg](https://www.slashfilm.com/img/gallery/clint-eastwood-had-to-fight-to-make-the-man-with-no-name-a-mystery/l-intro-1672172203.jpg) He’s cheating, he’s just squinting because he’s looking into the sun. Hey, wait, maybe he does have a point! Staring into sunlight IS a hardship, after all… ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/56 "2023-04-02T21:08:13Z")
Isn’t this just a bastardized version of Theodore Roosevelt’s notion of the “strenuous life” > [@](#): > > Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat. > > I wish to preach, not the doctrine of ignoble ease, but the doctrine of the strenuous life, the life of toil and effort, of labor and strife; to preach that highest form of success which comes, not to the man who desires mere easy peace, but to the man who does not shrink from danger, from hardship, or from bitter toil, and who out of these wins the splendid ultimate triumph. Roosevelt was a great president and a fascinating man, but he had some qualities akin to Trump. I know, I know, but he was once described by his daughter (I do love Alice Roosevelt) thusly > [@](#): > > My father always wanted to be the corpse at every funeral, the bride at every wedding and the baby at every christening. And I fear he would have been one of those guys who grumbled about “political correctness” and “soft men”. I’m certain he would have proudly extolled the virtues of manhood - which he would have undoubtedly described as doing sweaty and risky things. > [@](#): > > All daring and courage, all iron endurance of misfortune-make for a finer, nobler type of manhood… > > A soft, easy life is not worth living, if it impairs the fibre of brain and heart and muscle. We must dare to be great; and we must realize that greatness is the fruit of toil and sacrifice and high courage… For us is the life of action, of strenuous performance of duty; let us live in the harness, striving mightily; let us rather run the risk of wearing out than rusting out. This sort of posturing about “real men” is along these lines, in my opinion, however crude. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/57 "2023-04-04T16:37:36Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > a friend I sent this article to replied "and work makes you free too right? " Well, if the young people of today had gone camping more often, they’d be able to get married, buy a house and raise a family while working 60 hours a week for a $400 paycheck…….I guess. And I’m calling bullshit on the Disney anecdote. I believe that the same issues involved in cross-racial identification extend to age estimation and that white people frequently overestimate the ages of black people. It’s been a factor in cases where white police officers use excessive force against black children. It happens in the workplace, too……sometimes young black women are treated more harshly in the workplace because their same aged white counterparts are given breaks due to their youth and inexperience, and they aren’t given that same consideration. So the fact that he saw a bunch of “inner city” teens at Disney and decided they looked older is pretty meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2023, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/58 "2023-04-07T02:05:20Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > Somewhere around the time I unwisely agreed to take a preschooler and a toddler in diapers to enjoy the wonders of nature in a tent, I resolved to never vacation anywhere without real beds and hot and cold running water ever again. I’m just really glad I’m a woman and therefore don’t have to fret about being too domesticated. My parents and my uncle and aunt made the unwise decision to take a 5-year-old (my cousin) and an 8-_ **week** _-old (me) camping for several days. The first 3 days it poured, and trapped in a tent with a baby and a small boy, the adults nearly lost their minds. The 4th morning my parents declared they’d had enough, and the sun finally came out as soon as they got home. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2023, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/59 "2023-04-09T23:53:48Z")
My mom had to take my older 2 year old sister and 3 month old me on a plane trip with no other adult…with severe turbulence nearly the entire four hour flight. Apparently, both of us kids threw up nearly the entire four hour flight, too! ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979/60 "2023-04-11T16:57:51Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > > [@DSeid](#): > > > > My wonder though is, @nightshadea, why did this specific load of crap hook you into paying it any attention at all? > > Yeah, the basic headline here is: Another nitwit comes up with his own fantasy of what “BEING A MAN” is - reality has a different opinion on the matter. Similar to the musings of Tyler Durden in Fight Club. It’s mostly incoherent rambling that strikes a chord with segments of disassociated young men. “Neoteny” is a complex evolutionary phenomenon far beyond “men our soft because society is unmanly”. But it does speak to a certain truth about a more general sense of dissatisfaction with modern existence. Also I think it’s hard to argue that people are less healthy, less physically active, fatter, and generally “softer” than they were even a few decades ago. But dude, you really want to live a “manly” existence, go be a fireman or sign onto a lobster boat or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-are-domesticated-animals-now-man-allegedly-reveals-why-there-no-longer-biologically-adult-males-in-the-world/981979.md?page=4)