# People "boycotting" New Star Wars Film on Racial Grounds **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 20, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295 "2015-10-20T23:32:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/61 "2015-10-21T19:13:00Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I don’t think Chewbacca counts, unless you’re trying to imply something about the hairiness of white guys. Damn racist! 😛 Isn’t he a sandy blond? I know it’s not impossible for other races, but going by what’s typical I’m thinking that makes him a white guy. Unless it’s like how some Jewish people might not count themselves as white. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/62 "2015-10-21T19:18:41Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > A film with a huge target demographic of white males not having any white males in it is undeniably racist. I don’t know how anyone could claim that the people pointing that out are somehow themselves racist for making a valid observation. The fact that other movies in the series have had black guys in them has no bearing on that, as obviously none of those films were making it a point to exclude white males from any major roles. Please explain how it would be racist if Star Wars had no white men in major roles while white men make up a large part of the fan base. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/63 "2015-10-21T19:27:43Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I hadn’t watched the trailer yet and I thought that was what the complaint was in the article, or at least that they weren’t in any of the “major” roles. I’m actually surprised that it looks like Ford, Hamill, and/or Fisher may have more than just short token roles/appearances. I guess the gist of the original complaint though is still that the “major” new roles exclude white guys. I’ll have to go see it for myself (which I do intend to). Even just going by the “young” leads (Finn, Rey, and Kylo), one of them (Kylo) is being played by a white male. He’s wearing a mask, but he’s still a white male, in addition to the many other white males in the case (including Han Solo who it looks like will be playing a major role, and Max Von Sydow’s character, and Luke Skywalker, though he’s not in the trailer). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/64 "2015-10-21T19:27:51Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I guess the gist of the original complaint though is still that the “major” new roles exclude white guys. Do you now see why complaining about the absence of white guys in three new lead roles (one of which is a white woman, btw) in a movie that’s **already** featuring several white guys in lead roles is kind of a racist thing to do? A lot of self-proclaimed representatives of this “white male target demographic” seem to sneer at “whiny political correctness” whenever women or people of color advocate having more than, you know, **one** lead female or POC character in a major action film. But then they shit themselves screeching and whining if a major action film comes along where the lead characters aren’t at least 80% white male. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/65 "2015-10-21T19:28:14Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > A film with a huge target demographic of white males not having any white males in it is undeniably racist. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is a whoosh, right? There are several white males in the movie. Not only that. I don’t accept the premise. As Living Well says: > [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Please explain how it would be racist if Star Wars had no white men in major roles while white men make up a large part of the fan base. That was going to be my question. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/66 "2015-10-21T19:31:31Z")
Actually, considering that **Rigamarole** has posted this about black people: > [@Once again, a pitting of our local pseudo-scientific racialists](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/3): > > Do you truly believe otherwise? That black people are just as smart as whites and Asians genetically, and they just haven’t had the right environment to apply their natural intelligence? Nobody believes that shit deep down, but nobody is willing to say it either, in this apparent effort to prove how liberal and modern and enlightened they are. and this: > [@Once again, a pitting of our local pseudo-scientific racialists](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/5): > > Nice dodging the question. So, where are all the black physicists and mathematicians and engineers and… oh, right, it’s the _ **SYSTEM** _ that’s keeping them down. :rolleyes: …we probably shouldn’t be surprised by this latest. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/67 "2015-10-21T19:44:18Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Please explain how it would be racist if Star Wars had no white men in major roles while white men make up a large part of the fan base. How would it not? In any case, I’m not supporting the boycotters, but my point was that it’s ridiculous to imply that _they’re_ the racist ones for bringing up that objection. I’ll go see the actual movie before I form an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/68 "2015-10-21T19:48:05Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > How would it not? :dubious: You can’t possibly be serious. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/69 "2015-10-21T19:58:52Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > A film with a huge target demographic of white males not having any white males in it is undeniably racist. I don’t know how anyone could claim that the people pointing that out are somehow themselves racist for making a valid observation. The fact that other movies in the series have had black guys in them has no bearing on that, as obviously none of those films were making it a point to exclude white males from any major roles. What proportion of major roles do white men need to occupy, in any given film, not to feel “excluded”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/70 "2015-10-21T20:00:39Z")
Pretty strange to see someone who openly admits that he thinks black people are inherently genetically less intelligent than white people call something racist, much less the casting of a fantasy movie. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/71 "2015-10-21T20:05:07Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > :dubious: > > You can’t possibly be serious. And you can’t possibly be incredulous at the concept. It seems like it won’t necessarily be the case with this film, so it’s kind of a moot point. But just say in theory you had a series that had always been really popular with left-handed lesbian Muslims, and featured left-handed lesbian Muslim protagonists. And then you made a new one without any left-handed lesbian Muslims in it, or they just got a token role. People would lose their shit, and understandably so. Again, I don’t think that’s necessarily how it’ll be with the new Star Wars, but that’s how I read the complaint that spawned the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/72 "2015-10-21T20:17:00Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Racist is as racist does. Life is like a box of white chocolates… Racist Gump ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/73 "2015-10-21T20:37:17Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > And you can’t possibly be incredulous at the concept. It seems like it won’t necessarily be the case with this film, so it’s kind of a moot point. But just say in theory you had a series that had always been really popular with left-handed lesbian Muslims, and featured left-handed lesbian Muslim protagonists. And then you made a new one without any left-handed lesbian Muslims in it, or they just got a token role. People would lose their shit, and understandably so. There’s a difference between wanting to see people who are like you represented in the media you consume, and being upset that people who _aren’t_ like you _are_ represented in the media you consume. Example: Off the top of your head, name all the major studio movies starring a lesbian Muslim that you can think of. I’m guessing your list is about as long as mine: zero. Now, off the top of your head, name all the major studio movies starring a white guy that you can think of. Kind of a longer list, isn’t it? So, if there were a major movie that starred a lesbian Muslim, that would be pretty much the only lesbian Muslim protagonist being represented in mainstream cinema. If the sequel dropped that character and replaced her with a white guy, there would be nowhere else a lesbian Muslim could go to see people like her in film. Being upset that the only mainstream media source that depicted people like you has stopped depicting people like you is a legitimate complaint. On the other hand, white guys have _no end_ of opportunities to see people like them on film and in television. You could literally watch nothing but movies starring white guys for the rest of your natural life, and when you died, you’d still have barely scratched the surface of what’s available to you. So when some mouthbreathing internet racist complains that there’s too many darkies in his Star Wars, that’s not a legitimate complaint about his representation in mainstream media. That’s a shitty little person throwing a tantrum because he has to look at people who are the wrong color. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/74 "2015-10-21T20:39:38Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > But just say in theory you had a series that had always been really popular with left-handed lesbian Muslims, and featured left-handed lesbian Muslim protagonists. And then you made a new one without any left-handed lesbian Muslims in it, or they just got a token role. People would lose their shit, and understandably so. But in this movie the original white male protagonists are still there. Very much so. And there are plenty of other white male roles as well. So your hypothetical is completely inapplicable to this situation. (And of course, it was never just white males who liked Star Wars, either, so there’s no reason why it should represent only or overwhelmingly white males onscreen.) > [@Rigamarole](#): > > that’s how I read the complaint that spawned the OP And do you now understand why that complaint is ignorant racist garbage? These complainers are claiming that white males are being unfairly “excluded” from a movie **in which most of the lead roles are white males**. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/75 "2015-10-21T20:41:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And do you now understand why that complaint is ignorant racist garbage? These complainers are claiming that white males are being unfairly “excluded” from a movie **in which most of the lead roles are white males**. Eh, like I said, I’ll wait til I see it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/76 "2015-10-21T21:11:44Z")
For decades, it has been assumed that women are willing to watch shows and movies whose main characters are men and racial minorities are willing to watch ones whose main characters (and often every single one of the characters) are white. And now it is being asserted that it’s racist to expect white men to watch a theoretical movie that has no white men as main characters. I believe this is an obvious example of white fragility and an example of how a significant set of white men still have no idea what racism or sexism actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/77 "2015-10-21T21:55:35Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Eh, like I said, I’ll wait til I see it. Really? In order to know whether it’s racist to complain about white males being “excluded” from a movie in which the lead roles are predominantly white males, you have to wait until you actually see the movie? What, you think the movie might suddenly reveal that Luke and Han were secretly black or Asian all along? ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/78 "2015-10-21T22:11:12Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I believe this is an obvious example of white fragility and an example of how a significant set of white men still have no idea what racism or sexism actually is. The overwhelming majority of white men don’t care and aren’t threatened by this at all. There’s no “white fragility” at play here in any significant way. I don’t recall a controversy when Samuel L. Jackson was cast as Nick Fury and I don’t think it was because racist assholes were OK with it. It’s because the media didn’t pay attention to their patheticness, at the time, and rightly so. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/79 "2015-10-21T22:22:47Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > For decades, it has been assumed that women are willing to watch shows and movies whose main characters are men and racial minorities are willing to watch ones whose main characters (and often every single one of the characters) are white. > > And now it is being asserted that it’s racist to expect white men to watch a theoretical movie that has no white men as main characters. Yup. The white male self-proclaimed foes of “political correctness” need to make up their minds which argument they’re going for here: **1.** Are they arguing that _viewers should identify with and be interested in well-written characters irrespective of race or gender, without worrying about whether the race or gender of the character matches their own_? Fine, then they need to quit howling like frightened puppies when a mainstream blockbuster movie has a significant number of women or racial minorities in lead roles. STFU and learn to identify with the character’s goals or quest or ideas instead of their physical characteristics, just as you expect female and/or minority viewers to do. **2.** Are they arguing that _viewers should see their own race/gender identities represented onscreen so they will be able to relate to the characters better_? Fine, then they need to quit pompously deploring the “ruining” of movies by “political correctness” whenever somebody opines that mainstream blockbuster movie casts need more racial/gender diversity. But what they seem to be doing now is espousing position 1 when a movie shows overwhelmingly white male characters, and switching to position 2 when a movie reduces the white male dominance of the cast list by any significant amount. And by the way, it’s **not** only white male viewers who are seeing films like Star Wars, either. As [this survey reports](http://www.marketingcharts.com/traditional/action-adventure-the-preferred-genre-for-the-movie-theater-experience-27250/), > [@](#): > > Action and adventure movies are the most likely to draw a crowd of moviegoers, finds Nielsen in newly released data. Asked the types of movies they like to see most in theaters, 61% of American moviegoers chose action and adventure flicks, with comedy (50%) rating as the second-most popular. […] > > Nielsen finds that African American moviegoers (aged 12 and older) are 26% more likely than the average to name action and adventure as their favorite genre (77% vs. 61%) […] Caucasians, meanwhile, are least likely to gravitate towards action and adventure movies (58%) […] And apparently, one of the most crucial target audiences [is now considered to be Hispanics](http://www.thewrap.com/how-hispanics-became-hollywoods-most-important-audience/): > [@](#): > > Hispanics are the fastest-growing ethnic group in the United States, and their passion for movies is unsurpassed. The group bought 25 percent of the tickets sold in 2013 though they comprise just 17 percent of the population, according to the Motion Picture Association of America’s year-end study. […] > > “You don’t have a major hit without Hispanic moviegoers,” Chris Aronson, Fox’s president of domestic distribution, told TheWrap. […] > > Horror, action and comedy are considered the favorite genres of Hispanics and Latinos. Yet data suggests the Hispanic audience is increasingly vital to the success of movies in every genre. […] > > Hispanics go to the movies an average of six times a year, twice as often as the average moviegoer, per the MPAA’s report. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295/80 "2015-10-21T22:27:01Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > The overwhelming majority of white men don’t care and aren’t threatened by this at all. There’s no “white fragility” at play here in any significant way. Whether or not white fragility is significantly on display over Star Wars in the world at large, there is considerable white fragility on display in Rigamarole’s posts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-boycotting-new-star-wars-film-on-racial-grounds/735295.md?page=5)