# People charged with "politically correct stupidity" are actually quite intelligent. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 23, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206 "2010-08-23T21:12:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/21 "2010-08-24T23:08:12Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > > I meant to say weakening themselves every time they throw a fit over Hallmark cards saying “black hole,” in case that wasn’t clear. > > Has anyone thrown such a fit? The Los Angeles NAACP has, [yes](http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=7475737). ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/22 "2010-08-24T23:30:11Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > Has anyone thrown such a fit? > > The Los Angeles NAACP has, [yes](http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=7475737). From the article: \*“The intent here is to say that this graduate is not afraid of anything,” explained Hallmark spokesman Steve Doyal. But that’s not what some people heard. “You hear the ‘r’ in there. ‘Whores,’ not, ‘holes.’ The ‘r’ is in there,” said Minnie Hatley of the Los Angeles NAACP. \* Compared to this Dr Laura should be hanged 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/23 "2010-08-25T00:49:04Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > If you’re saying that the typical American religion has a more obvious political agenda than civil rights groups or feminist groups, that’s obviously untrue. But in any case, bring up religion is a complete non sequitur in this thread, so I don’t know why you posted at all here when you don’t have anything relevant to say. I don’t know what you mean by civil rights “groups”. Civil rights “organizations” sure, but your OP simply said, “issues of race and gender”. A religion obviously has more of an agenda than a whole race or gender. And **Jas09** already made clear why it’s relevant to bring up religion. Political correctness is not strictly a phenomena of the left, you know. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/24 "2010-08-25T00:54:31Z")
> [@](#): > > As others have brought up too, you’re leaving out religion for some reason, and I think the typical religious outrage towards whatever is perceived as insulting behavior or speech is at least as clear an example of what you’re talking about (that is; raising a ruckus over fairly minor things to head of any potential discussion of real issues, if I’m reading you right). I didn’t mention religion because this thread is not about religion. Obviously if I wanted to provide an exhaustive list of persons and groups that obsess over minor things, I could also have listed the atheists who have a cow over creche scenes in public parks. But that wasn’t the goal of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/25 "2010-08-25T05:03:51Z")
What is the goal of the thread then? Why have you chosen to limit it to race and gender? Why are race and gender grouped together? What makes those two specific categories the ones you want to talk about in this context? What makes them distinct in this context from religion or the atheists you mention? ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/26 "2010-08-25T08:28:19Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > As others have brought up too, you’re leaving out religion for some reason, and I think the typical religious outrage towards whatever is perceived as insulting behavior or speech is at least as clear an example of what you’re talking about (that is; raising a ruckus over fairly minor things to head of any potential discussion of real issues, if I’m reading you right). > > I didn’t mention religion because this thread is not about religion. Obviously if I wanted to provide an exhaustive list of persons and groups that obsess over minor things, I could also have listed the atheists who have a cow over creche scenes in public parks. But that wasn’t the goal of the thread. Huh. I must be reading this differently from you, then. I’d _definitely_ put atheist and religious actions and protests regarding “speech” in this category. Except, maybe, the strictly legal actions, which are forced attempts at modifying/restricting speech. I’d define “political correctness” as a strategy to modify public acceptance, not changing or enforcing legal acceptance. I can probably find the relevant Dawkins quote regarding what he calls “raising awareness” that fairly clearly spells it out (and IIRC, links it to feminist attempts at changing language). ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/27 "2010-08-25T09:28:55Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > And it works. That is to say, we all know that politicians, corporations, and almost everyone else tends to walk and talk with extreme caution whenever they’re dealing with issues of race or gender and to bend over backward to please those special interest groups. I’m confused – do you mean to say that this is a good thing in general, or just wrt those special interest groups? Besides, the mere fact that a strategy works doesn’t make it intelligent. In order to eliminate opposition to your viewpoint, you could choose to bash in the heads of all dissenters; that’d work, provided you have the means to do so. However, there may be a strategy that accomplishes the same goal without making you look like a needlessly violent despot. There are working strategies that are, nevertheless, stupid. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/28 "2010-08-25T12:32:05Z")
[quote=“Shodan, post:14, topic:551206”] > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I believe they end up weakening themselves every time a Hallmark greeting card says “black hole.” True dat. Every time some one goes ballistic over using the term “niggardly” it [list=A][li]makes them look stupid, which is exactly the effect you don’t want, and [\*]makes it that much easier to overlook use of the term “nigger”.[/list][/li][/QUOTE] Interestingly, the people who constantly bring up the issue of “niggardly” are the people who are running around wailing about political correctness. There was one, single incident in Washington, D.C. where a bunch of idiots, (of similar low intelligence to the total fools in L.A. ranting about “black holes”), cost a gentleman his job for using the word niggardly, yet many times that a discussion of “nigger” comes up, we get treated to tales about how (implied “all”) the people who complain about “nigger” can’t tell the difference between “nigger” and “niggard” as though that was a common event. The only common event is that the the event is raised by people who claim to oppose Political Correctness, not those accused of promoting Political Correctness. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/29 "2010-08-25T13:08:45Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Interestingly, the people who constantly bring up the issue of “niggardly” are the people who are running around wailing about political correctness. Cite? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/30 "2010-08-25T18:08:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > > [@tomndebb](#): > > > > Interestingly, the people who constantly bring up the issue of “niggardly” are the people who are running around wailing about political correctness. > > Cite? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12836441&postcount=14](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12836441&postcount=14) It is a lot less common to hear anyone complaining about the use of “niggardly” than it is to hear people complaining that someone else, (actually one silly group in Washington D.C. and a second idiot on a California school board), complained about the use of niggardly. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/31 "2010-08-25T18:22:52Z")
I think this debate is suffering from the general vagueness of what we mean by “political correctness”. Steward Lee made the point in one of his stand up shows that many of the ‘examples’ of “PC gone mad” were actually examples of “Health and Safety standards gone mad” [note; this confusion is very common in the UK, but not as much AFAIK in the US] I browsed the Wiki page (yes I know, but you have to start somewhere), and the term seems to be used in so many ways it’s very hard to get a clear handle on it. Historically [60s], it seems to have been a term that was much closer to its literal meaning: “politically correct” == “conforming to political [leftist] dogma”, and even back then it was mostly used ironically. But more recently [after the early 90s or so], you can define it as a generic _linguistic/sociological strategy_; using “framing effects”. In historical context, a push for “inclusive language”, but the same strategy can also be used for historically completely unrelated or even opposite goals. So what exactly are we talking about here? Are we talking about a] “the leftist/feminist dogma”, b] “the language strategy to reduce discrimination”, c] “any language strategy that has [some] political/social goal”. Something else? What? I think the discussion would be more clear if in any following responses, we make it clear what exactly we mean by the term. I’ve been using it mostly in the sense of c], but I think at least **ITR** has a different meaning in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/32 "2010-08-25T18:35:28Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Steward Lee made the point in one of his stand up shows that many of the ‘examples’ of “PC gone mad” were actually examples of “Health and Safety standards gone mad” [note; this confusion is very common in the UK, but not as much AFAIK in the US\*\*] \*\* Which may be because in the US, people are quicker to blame lawyers and insurance companies for this kind of thing, while in the UK, idiots and government officials tend to get the blame. (Relatively regardless of what the circumstances are). ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/33 "2010-08-25T19:29:25Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > Has anyone thrown such a fit? > > The Los Angeles NAACP has, [yes](http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=7475737). Unbelievable. The front of the card talks about the solar system. And after listening, it clearly says black “holes”, not “whores”. What a bunch of lying, whiney racist jackasses. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/34 "2010-08-25T19:59:09Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > There was one, single incident in Washington, D.C. > **[Controversies about the word niggardly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22)** > > In the United States, there have been several controversies involving the misunderstanding of the word niggardly, an adjective meaning "stingy" or "miserly", because of its phonetic similarity to nigger, an ethnic slur used against black people. Although the two words are etymologically unrelated, niggard is nonetheless often replaced with a synonym. People have faced misplaced backlash for using the word. > Niggard, arising in the Middle Ages, long predates nigger, which arose in the 18th centur... ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/35 "2010-08-25T21:47:54Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > Cite? > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12836441&postcount=14](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12836441&postcount=14) Do you have a real cite, or are you simply making a personal attack? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/36 "2010-08-25T22:24:10Z")
> [@furt](#): > > > [@tomndebb](#): > > > > There was one, single incident in Washington, D.C. > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies\_about\_the\_word\_"niggardly"](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22) OK. Instead of the two incidents I cited, there were also two more over the course of eleven years. I can easily find more than four posts, here, in which outrage at niggardly is scorned: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8087418#post8087418](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8087418#post8087418) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9677716#post9677716http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9947023#post9947023](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9677716#post9677716http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9947023#post9947023) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10840323#post10840323](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10840323#post10840323) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11297710#post11297710](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11297710#post11297710) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11970292#post11970292](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11970292#post11970292) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/37 "2010-08-25T22:32:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have a real cite, or are you simply making a personal attack? How is this a personal attack? You tried to make a point about the _offenderati_ with a reference to “niggardly.” I pointed out that it is more frequent to encounter people expressing offense at the _offenderati_. You demanded a cite and I provided your post. We have (thanks to furt) documented four occasions when someone stupidly got offended by “niggardly.” I have now provided more than four occasions where someone was complaining about or mocking someone else for being offended by “niggardly.” (And if I looked up Limbaugh or O’Reilly, I could probably find a few dozen more.) I maintain that people have expressed more offense that someone could take offense at niggardly than have actually been offended by niggardly. I see no reason to change my views or to ignore your participation in all the outrage, (however mild). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/38 "2010-08-26T12:21:01Z")
On preview - nm. DNFTTomndebb. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/39 "2010-08-26T15:44:24Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > > [@furt](#): > > > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies\_about\_the\_word\_"niggardly"](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22) > > OK. Instead of the two incidents I cited, there were also two more over the course of eleven years. IOW, “even though I was wrong on the facts, I still have the larger truth on my side.” Thank you, **Diogenes**. And FWIW, I count six, plus a remark from the editors of a magazine indicating they get letters about it at least occasionally. It’s common sense that a quite small fraction of incidents are going to make it to the press, let alone wikipedia. More to the point: if you were speaking to a group of African-Americans, you know damn well you’d never use the word. The vast majority of the time, PC squelching occurs in ways that never come close to making the paper: e.g. the teaching colleague of mine whose department head, in response to a student complaint, “suggested” he not use the phrase “illegal immigrant” in referring to sojurners without benefit of visa, because the term was “insensitive.” The next semester, he took the topic off the reading list. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206/40 "2010-08-26T17:25:48Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > Cite? > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12836441&postcount=14](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12836441&postcount=14) > > It is a lot less common to hear anyone complaining about the use of “niggardly” than it is to hear people complaining that someone else, (actually one silly group in Washington D.C. and a second idiot on a California school board), complained about the use of niggardly. N1. Seriously now, was my entire point. Having a holy cow over someone saying “niggardly” is the exact opposite of helpful, as all it does it make these civil rights groups look like a bunch of whining cowards. The OP’s contention is that their approach was “Don’t even fuck with me; I will ruin your life if you even use a word that _sounds_ like nigger,” to which my reply was, “That’s not going to stop anyone from fucking with you. In fact, all it’s going to do is make people not take you seriously because you sound fucking stupid.” Yes, there is far more griping about idiotic gripes, than there is idiotic gripes. You’d think, though, that would make them want to tone it down and only submit legitimate complaints. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-charged-with-politically-correct-stupidity-are-actually-quite-intelligent/551206.md?page=3)