# People from \_\_\_\_\_: Noun vs. Adjective **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 8, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455 "2010-06-08T17:56:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/21 "2010-06-09T21:15:40Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:1, topic:542455”] Over in ATMB, a sidetrack started in one of the threads, discussing whether the term “Brit” is offensive to British people. [/QUOTE] How is it offensive? Unless there are some British people in that thread saying it then it’s about as valid as white people insisting you shouldn’t call people of African descent black - what the fuck would they know? > [@Electric\_Warrior](#): > > And there is no appropriate demonym for China or Japan. “He’s a Chinese?” No. A lot of chinese people will use their ethnicity, i.e. Han. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/22 "2010-06-09T21:20:18Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > How is it offensive? Unless there are some British people in that thread saying it then it’s about as valid as white people insisting you shouldn’t call people of African descent black - what the fuck would they know? Well I was saying that I generally don’t find it offensive (patronizing, yes), but that it **can** be used in an offensive way. Like other words. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/23 "2010-06-10T04:01:46Z")
Indiana residents are…Hoosiers. No one’s sure why. Michigan residents used to be Michiganders. Now they’re Michiganians. Except those in the Upper Peninsula, who are Yoopers. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/24 "2010-06-10T09:37:33Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Well I was saying that I generally don’t find it offensive (patronizing, yes), but that it **can** be used in an offensive way. Like other words. Point taken, but they any set of words that should be innocuous can either be meant as or taken as offensive. Just take the sentence “You and your family are well, I hope?” On the face of it that should just be a well-meaning simple enquiry. Out of the mouth of a leering local crime lord who has you in his sights it’s a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/25 "2010-06-10T16:26:47Z")
Folks from Maine are called Mainers. And folks from New England are called New Englanders. I wonder why ‘Englanders’ isn’t appropriate for people from England. As a curiosity, the people from Menton (a beautiful town on the French Rivera where my family spends summers) are called Mentonasque. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/26 "2010-06-10T16:42:11Z")
When in Barbados I was told by one local that the correct term for the people there was Barbadians, but another local angrily disagreed, saying Bajan was correct. They glared at each other, I ordered a round of Presidente Beers and things settled down. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/27 "2010-06-10T17:10:24Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > Not exclusively Newcastle (those would be Novocastrians) – Geordies are generally reckoned to come from Tyneside and the surrounding area. Not too broad an area though, we prefer not to be confused with Mackems, Smoggies and Monkey Hangers (and vice versa). > > Not bothered by Brit, though – I’ll admit I’ve occasionally inferred a bit of an attitude behind its use by some Americans, but it’s the attitude that seems offensive, not the epithet. I wouldn’t call a Macca (From Sunderland) a Geordie if I valued my teeth. I’m a Brit and not offended to be called one. I have heard the term used in tones of great malice when used by extremist Irish Nationalists referring to myself. But as I say I’m proud of my ethnicity so the term doesn’t offend me. Though somewhat bizzarly over here we’re not allowed to shorten Pakistani to Paki as it is supposed to be a perjorative term and we can get prosecuted for saying it. A Doper who actually is a Pakistani living in Pakistan ( **AK** ) said that he didn’t find it offensive, as opposed to someone of Pakistani descent living in the U.K. Apparently shortening Japanese to Jap is also supposed to be meant insultingly. So its .. ``` Brit-OK Paki-Not O.K. Jap-Not O.K. ``` logical isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/28 "2010-06-10T17:20:05Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > (hijack - by the way **Descamisado** , I dig the band [BR 549](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tf_NIBIJs8), whom I assume you are referring to in your title - great old school country with some wonderful pedal steel work…) Actually, my reference is to the original use of BR-549, from which the band’s name is inspired. I remember watching the show _Hee Haw_ and all the corny skits on lazy Saturday afternoons growing up. > [@](#): > > “[The band] assumed the name BR5-49 from the telephone number of a used car dealer in a running Junior Samples comedy sketch on the television series Hee Haw . . . .” ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/29 "2010-06-10T17:32:40Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > Actually, my reference is to the original use of BR-549, from which the band’s name is inspired. I remember watching the show _Hee Haw_ and all the corny skits on lazy Saturday afternoons growing up. Completing the hijack circle to say - cool, ignorance fought; I did not know that! Back to our regularly-scheduled thread. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/30 "2010-06-10T17:45:32Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > Michigan residents used to be Michiganders. Now they’re Michiganians. Says who? Michigander is more elegant. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/31 "2010-06-10T20:42:17Z")
My (Australian) wife says that people from Sydney are called Sydneysiders. Not quite sure if she’s yanking my chain or not 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/32 "2010-06-11T10:45:37Z")
Let us not forget the Monégasques and the Sammarinese. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/33 "2010-06-11T21:30:46Z")
> [@PsyXe](#): > > What other really weird “people from” terms are there? In the olden days when the Transvaal was a province, we were called “vaalies” and universally hated. Now I live in Gauteng, and we’re less universally called “gauties” - or maybe it’s just the people I know - and hated just as much. Only down here at the Cape. 😉 (Or are you hated in Durban as well? :p) Technically I suppose you should be called “Gautengers”. There’s the slightly odd-sounding (although presumably grammatically correct) construction “Capetonians” for people from Cape Town. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/34 "2010-06-11T21:36:25Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Says who? Michigander is more elegant. I liked Michigander better too, but I haven’t heard it used in years. And I’ve lived here most of my life. “Michiganian” sounds pretentious to me, but it’s the term the local media have used since at least the 1980s. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/35 "2010-06-11T22:08:12Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:13, topic:542455”] That is helpful when speaking of the people as a whole, but “I saw the Chinese yesterday” has a rather different implication than “I saw a Chinese person yesterday.” [/QUOTE] As a Chinese immigrant my Dad never found the term “Chinaman” offensive, until he was told by someone indignant on his behalf that it was meant to be offensive. “Yes, I am a man. And I am from China. So?”. And living in Harlem and then the South Bronx around 1968-1976, he had a lot of Hispanic neighbors and got called “Chino” a lot (mostly in a friendly way). Your mileage in the year 2010 with this may vary of course 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/36 "2010-06-12T00:05:57Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > My (Australian) wife says that people from Sydney are called Sydneysiders. Not quite sure if she’s yanking my chain or not 🙂 And Perthanalities! And Taswegians (or Tasmaniacs)! Territorians! Darwinians! New South Welshmen! Brisbanites! Queenslanders! Adelaidians! ---
**Author:** ![Generic\_Userid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9fc29f/32.png) [@Generic\_Userid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Generic_Userid)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/37 "2010-06-12T00:08:07Z")
Lotsa weird structures out there of course, and many are “slang” as opposed to “proper” names. Many are modern(ish) day creations by Politically Correct entities (such as the media, especially in the U.S.) that follow no logic that traditional speakers of English can perceive. There’s a rule of thumb I learned ages ago to create the noun form used to indicate a resident of a specific country. If the country name ends in a vowel, you drop the vowel and add a simple suffix ending with “an” or “ian” to the name of the country (e.g., America to American, Canada to Canadian). A ‘sub rule’ if you will is to drop the last vowel or syllable completely: Germany to German, Turkey to Turk. If the name ends in a consonant then the most common suffixes are “ese” or “er”. The “er” ending seems to be commonly derived from Germanic language usage or syntax, and there’s a seemingly older English form to simply add “man” to the end of the country name. It also seems to me that there’s less "PC"ness to the way British English-speaking people use their language as opposed to American English-speaking people. One thing to bear in mind is that the noun form we use in English is largely dependant upon our English-language-specific version of the country name. For example, the country known to us as “Germany” is known to its residents as “Deutschland”, and so the noun forms will be different depending on which name you use. And last but not least, there’s always exceptions to the rule. Random sampling of Countries + noun forms: ((to parse country name to noun form, try to use it in a sentence like this: “I am from [country] so I am a/an [noun form]”)) America → American Canada → Canadian / Canuck China → Chinese / Chinaman Ghana → Ghanian Mexico → Mexican Puerto Rico → Puerto Rican Deutschland → Deutschlander Germany → German Iceland → Icelander Turkey → Turk Iran → Iranian Arabia → Arabian (or Arab depending on context) England → Englander / Englishman Viet Nam → Vietnamese France → Frenchman Netherlands → Dutchman Nederlands → Nederlander Wales → Welshman Iraq → Iraqi Scotland → Scot Argentina → Argentinian Bolivia → Bolivian South Africa → South African Sudan → Sudanese Pakistan → Pakistani Congo → Congolese Egypt → Egyptian I know a word ending in “ese” sounds like it should only be adjectival according to regular English grammar, but these forms are regularly used in \*\*American \*\*English as nouns whether or not they are “proper” under traditional English grammatical guidelines. I blame the media for the gross dumbing-down of America … those stupid language guidebooks (e.g., the _AP Stylebook_) that most if not all reporters use to vet their syntax are horrible – they deconstruct language to the lowest common denominator then use ‘newspeak’ logic to support their inventions of “simplified” spelling and grammar – for example they use ‘leaped’ [leept] instead of ‘leapt’ [lept] because they believe that the **Average American™** is simply too stupid to understand that ‘leapt’ is past tense of the verb ‘to leap’ and similar such gross atrocities wrought upon irregular verbs. I’m tired of “hanged” instead of “hung” and “lighted” instead of “lit”. What’s next, “bringed” instead of “brought”, “leaded” [leeded] instead of “led”, “readed” instead of “read” ? Jeez, we already get “pleaded” instead of “pled” in every news report about court cases. Effin stupid reporters / media editors seriously tick me off. But to more directly address the OP’s question, I don’t believe there is any appropriate English-language alternative to “Englishman” or “Frenchman” regardless of the subject’s gender. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/38 "2010-06-12T00:51:56Z")
> [@PsyXe](#): > > 😃 > > What other really weird “people from” terms are there? In the olden days when the Transvaal was a province, we were called “vaalies” and universally hated. Now I live in Gauteng, and we’re less universally called “gauties” - or maybe it’s just the people I know - and hated just as much. People from Glasgow are Glaswegians, which is weird. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/39 "2010-06-12T01:46:55Z")
> [@Generic\_Userid](#): > > … I’m tired of “hanged” instead of “hung” and “lighted” instead of “lit”. What’s next, “bringed” instead of “brought”, “leaded” [leeded] instead of “led”, “readed” instead of “read” ? Jeez, we already get “pleaded” instead of “pled” in every news report about court cases. Effin stupid reporters / media editors seriously tick me off… But “hanged” IS correct in some cases. I might have hung the picture on the wall but the evil criminal will be hanged by the neck until dead. So things can be “hung”, but people are “hanged”, (although they might also be well hung). 😃 And I suppose it’s past my bedtime and my little brain is powering down, but I’m sure “pleaded” is correct. I _think_ I have heard or read “pled” but it seemed to be a slang usage or simply done for comic effect. > [@Generic\_Userid](#): > > … > But to more directly address the OP’s question, I don’t believe there is any appropriate English-language alternative to “Englishman” or “Frenchman” regardless of the subject’s gender. > > 🙂 That seems a bit unfair on Englishwomen and Frenchwomen. Ach, that’s all right, all English and French are probably too busy watching the football World Cup to care. 😃 > [@Zsofia](#): > > People from Glasgow are Glaswegians, which is weird. I suppose so. Like people from Norway being Norwegian. My first thought, **Zsofia** , was to offer to become a Glasweirdan instead, then I realised that doesn’t really help. Even a lame joke needs a bit of logic somewhere. :smack: I’m not sure what we ought to call the natives of Edinburgh. I mean, “Edinburger” is tempting, but also has a certain weirdness. And people from Paisley are called “Buddies”, for no clear reason. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455/40 "2010-06-12T02:09:32Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > I wonder why ‘Englanders’ isn’t appropriate for people from England. Probably because _Engländer_ is the German word for them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-from-_____-noun-vs-adjective/542455.md?page=3)