# People make me sick **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 9, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518 "2003-10-09T18:40:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MonkeyMule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc348/32.png) [@MonkeyMule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMule)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/1 "2003-10-09T18:40:49Z")
I was just reading [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=214958) thread and now I have a headache. **Janx’s** opinion that Rap is not real music because it’s not "original because if the uses of samples is more then mildly annoying. **casdave** idea that since they don’t use musical instruments they are not real musicians makes me want stab someone in their eye and drink the ocular jelly. Shit like that really pisses me off! Simple less in economics ass munches of the world. Instruments cost money. Music lessons cost money. POOR PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE MONEY JACKOFF! People who live in areas like THE ONE THAT I HAVE LIVED IN FOR THE LAST 24 YEARS OF MY LIFE as a rule do not have excess funds to buy such nice things as fucking tuba lessons. When you eat god damn cheerios for fucking breakfast lunch and fucking dinner who gives a rats ass if I learn what a treble cleft is. So when deprived of “traditional” modes of entertainment, poor people do what we always have, we innovate and create. Now Poof, pow, kazaam you get Rap, and Jazz, and every form of folk music on earth. But I guess that’s not real music ether because they don’t use you consider real musical instruments jackass. Janx you yourself admit to taking samples to create music, now is it that only **YOUR** method of sampling is acceptable, or are you a rampaging douche bag. You make me sick. I could go on further but the bile back of my throat is making me sick, if ethier of you care to pick up this discussion further please don’t hesitate, to reply. Otherwise eat shit and die. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/2 "2003-10-09T18:47:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Instruments cost money. So does sampling equipment. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc348/32.png) [@MonkeyMule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMule)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/3 "2003-10-09T18:53:47Z")
You mean a radio and blank tape? Thats all it takes jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/4 "2003-10-09T18:59:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMule \* > **People who live in areas like THE ONE THAT I HAVE LIVED IN FOR THE LAST 24 YEARS OF MY LIFE as a rule do not have excess funds to buy such nice things as fucking tuba lessons.** Well, I for one am glad that the ingenuity of poor people was able to overcome the stranglehold bourgeous tuba players once had on the mainstream music scene. We are all better off as a result. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/5 "2003-10-09T19:05:27Z")
[scooby] rrrUUUUH?[/scooby] > [@](#): > > …that Rap is not real music because it’s not "original because if the uses of samples… Because if the uses of samples what??? Also, what’s a sample? Otherwise, thanks for explaining some stuff. I’d never thought of the lack of musical instruments lessons, etc being the cause of rap. (Sheesh, if I’d known THAT was the problem, I’d have been contributing to music for poor kids, LONG AGO!!!). I used to think rap was kinda neat (RunDMC and their ilk), but the “new” stuff is so hateful and violent sounding. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/6 "2003-10-09T19:08:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMule \* > \*\*You mean a radio and blank tape? Thats all it takes jackass. \*\* In that case, a radio, blank tape and _really_ fast fingers. Yes, very inexpensive. I take it back. ---
**Author:** ![Wyatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Wyatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wyatt)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/7 "2003-10-09T19:13:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMule \* > \*\*…as a rule do not have excess funds to buy such nice things as fucking tuba lessons. \*\* wow… I played tuba all through school… and had no idea there were lessons to learn to do That with it! Dang! ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc348/32.png) [@MonkeyMule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMule)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/8 "2003-10-09T19:28:25Z")
**CanvasShoes** Sorry for that typo, it was to read “use of” not “use is” and as far as history, maybe I should throw some more background in there now That I took a shower and had my second cup of oversized coffee. **Bruce\_ Daddy** - Before I loose my cool, at least let me give you the benefit of the doubt and expand on my point. When I say all you need is a radio and a blank tape, I meant that is all you need to start learning. Sure to do A P-diddy type mix would require a studio. But since I was about 5, I’ve seen people put together simple mix tapes using just a radio with two tape decks. Follow the time line, I’ll try and go slow and use small words as to not distract or confuse you. 10 years old- Start making simple mix tapes off the radio 12-13- Get first job; Buy cheap turn($80-$120) table. Make more advanced tapes and mixes. Extra cash use to expand collection of Records($5-$20 each) 13-17- Start DJ’ing House parties, build reputation as good DJ ($0-$300 a gig) 18-20 - Start DJ’ing Clubs, use profits to get studio time; Studio techs teach how to operate equipment to create sound desired (this could happen at any point depending on contacts, and options available). Sell CD’s, Get famous. My point is that it costs a hell of a lot less to learn how to create hip-hop music then it does to learn the Cello. We won’t even go in to the skill required to write lyrics, which is the MAIN FOUCS OF THE GENRE IN THE FIRST PLACE. God I hate people. Rap songs are more about the lyrics then the music anyway. THAT is where the Strenght lies. I can’t tell you how many rappers I’ve seen fail becasue they had weak WEAK lyrics. If you want to go into that, I have no problem. I’ve got enough rage for all of you ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/9 "2003-10-09T19:40:34Z")
Ya gotta have hands too! Every time I see a rapper on TV they seem to spend a lot of time contorting their hands and gesturing while they perform. So the list is - tape deck, radio and **HANDS** Music is what moves you. Why worry about it? Your never going to convince some people that rap is worthwhile music. I’m one of them. But if you wanna do it and other people find it valuable - its art - its a career - Ok, its music. Bubba ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/10 "2003-10-09T19:46:54Z")
But I gotta take it to you on the money thing. The Blues came out of poor, southern, black living. You don’t get much poorer then that. 70 years later those performers with their cheap broken down guitars are still recognized for their talent. Time will tell if Raps “musicians” will be as honored. Bubba ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/11 "2003-10-09T19:50:15Z")
**CanvasShoes** , there is a gigantic spectrum of different music styles that utilize sampling. In its most basic form, a short segment of pre-recorded music (i.e., LP, CD or tape track) is extracted from a longer piece and (usually) retained in a recirculating delay pipeline. While this one sample loops several times, the DJ can examine other discs (or whatever) for another compatible (and usually harmonius) sequence. By carefully controlling the playback (e.g., turntable motor) speed, the back beat of the recirculating sample can be matched with the next sequence to provide a fairly seamless segue into the next passage. What I have described is the method used by DJs to produce certain forms of techno and house music. Traditional rap can also use just the LP disc itself to provide both the regularly recorded music from its tracks and also be manipulated (via manually spinning the turntable platter backwards or forwards) to create entirely different sounds. I have previously debated about whether this represents genuine musical composition (and whether the turntable serves as a true musical instrument) in other threads. Until recently I was of the mind that since actual new tone sequences were not being produced, that the turntables did not constitute genuine musical instruments. More recently, I have had a chance to examine the DJ process up close with my Burning Man crew. I have been extremely impressed by individuals flawlessly linking classical guitar with other segments of 1960s pop music and similarly amazing transitions of that sort. It has inspired me to rethink my position on the matter. While I am not totally convinced that the turntable is a de facto musical instrument, the DJ work I’ve heard does indeed deserve to be called musical composition. I’ll not devolve my explanation further into any hair splitting of definitions. Instead, I’m just going to say that people are not altogether entitled to dismiss the musical work of scratchers and DJs solely because they use pre-recorded material. However annoying I find 99% of rap music to be, there is definitely an element of valid performance going on. To dismiss it out of hand is an insult to those who practice the artform. I’ll also back up the OP’s statement about the cost efficiency of setting up a DJ rig. Most musical instruments (besides really a cheap guitar) can cost from double to ten times what a low-end twin platter DJ rig can be set up for. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc348/32.png) [@MonkeyMule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMule)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/12 "2003-10-09T19:51:06Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by BubbaDog \* Music is what moves you. Why worry about it? Your never going to convince some people that rap is worthwhile music. I’m one of them. But if you wanna do it and other people find it valuable - its art - its a career - Ok, its music. [QUOTE] See thats my whole point. Love it or hate it I don’t care but to insist that people who do it have no talent are aren’t real artist sounds to me like “Dumb niggers can’t make REAL music, so fuck’em” and it makes me kinda pissed. If it is so easy, why aren’t YOU (Universal you, not you Bubba) a multi millionaire with 1000 gold and platnium Albums? jackasses ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/13 "2003-10-09T19:52:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMule \* > **Bruce\_ Daddy** - Before I loose my cool, at least let me give you the benefit of the doubt and expand on my point. When I say all you need is a radio and a blank tape, I meant that is all you need to start learning. Sure to do A P-diddy type mix would require a studio. But since I was about 5, I’ve seen people put together simple mix tapes using just a radio with two tape decks. Ah, so rapper’s make mix tapes. Got it. > [@](#): > > Follow the time line, I’ll try and go slow and use small words as to not distract or confuse you. Thank you. > [@](#): > > 10 years old- Start making simple mix tapes off the radio > 12-13- Get first job; Buy cheap turn($80-$120) table. Make more advanced tapes and mixes. Extra cash use to expand collection of Records($5-$20 each) > 13-17- Start DJ’ing House parties, build reputation as good DJ ($0-$300 a gig) > 18-20 - Start DJ’ing Clubs, use profits to get studio time; Studio techs teach how to operate equipment to create sound desired (this could happen at any point depending on contacts, and options available). Sell CD’s, Get famous. Shhhhhh!!! That’s supposed to be a secret. Most people think you have to get shot like 8 times and meet Dr. Dre and Eminem. > [@](#): > > My point is that it costs a hell of a lot less to learn how to create hip-hop music then it does to learn the Cello. We won’t even go in to the skill required to write lyrics, which is the MAIN FOUCS OF THE GENRE IN THE FIRST PLACE. And to make mix tapes! > [@](#): > > God I hate people. We know. > [@](#): > > Rap songs are more about the lyrics then the music anyway. THAT is where the Strenght lies. I can’t tell you how many rappers I’ve seen fail becasue they had weak WEAK lyrics. If you want to go into that, I have no problem. I’ve got enough rage for all of you. I thought it was about mix tapes. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc348/32.png) [@MonkeyMule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMule)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/14 "2003-10-09T20:09:47Z")
Hey Smart ass, you quick QUICK lesson. Rappers can do producing AND write lyrics. A few have been known to walk, chew gum, AND carry on a conversation all the while converting oxygen into carbon dioxide. Amazing I know I know lots of MC’s who are also DJ’s. I really thought I was going slow enough for you, but I forget how much inbreeding effects the mental process. And at what point did I say that you can’t create a mix tap that does not include your own lyrics over sampled beats? And I know you know I hate people, but I think it bears repeating. I am making myself clear through the use or repetition. People are vile and should be shot ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/15 "2003-10-09T20:25:09Z")
> [@](#): > > I am making myself clear through the use or repetition. Yes. Yes you are. - **Bruce\_Mixtape+Vocals\_Daddy** ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc348/32.png) [@MonkeyMule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMule)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/16 "2003-10-09T20:32:21Z")
Cute. What’s next your Momma jokes? I’ve had more stimulating conversations with my testicles ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/17 "2003-10-09T20:36:48Z")
Please spare us the socioeconomic bullshit. If you want to defend rap, R&B, or whatever on musical grounds, you have to demonstrate that it stands up to real critical scrutiny. This can be done for many established genres of music. But please don’t try to defend rap on the basis that it is some kind of vindication for the poor. As if. > [@](#): > > Simple less in economics ass munches of the world. Instruments cost money. Music lessons cost money. POOR PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE MONEY JACKOFF! You’d be surprised by just how much money poor people _do_ have. Funny how the very definition of poverty changes when you calculate it based on consumption rather than income. Guess that explains why “poor” people eat cheerios three meals a day yet own hi-fi televisions, Diesel jeans, and drive better cars than a “middle class” white city boy like me could _ever_ afford. Maybe you did grow up poor, **MonkeyMule**. But spare us the “people in the ghetto can’t afford to learn what treble clefs are.” That shit didn’t stop Louis Armstrong, who was certainly poorer than you and just about everyone else in a modern ghetto. And the trumpet is a real instrument. People don’t think rap is real music because to a lot of them, it just sucks. Deal with it on musical terms. Keep the preachy crap out. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/18 "2003-10-09T20:59:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMule \* > **[My point is that it costs a hell of a lot less to learn how to create hip-hop music then it does to learn the Cello.** Well, even if you could afford to learn the cello, I wouldn’t bother. No matter how good you get, the damn tuba players will just blackball you. The music industry is all about who you know. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/19 "2003-10-09T21:03:51Z")
> [@](#): > > But since I was about 5, I’ve seen people put together simple mix tapes using just a radio with two tape decks. Pardon me, but how is this **not** copyright infringement to take someone else’s song and “re-mix” them by combining it with another? Or am I totally misunderstanding what’s happening here? ---
**Author:** ![MrMyth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19b73/32.png) [@MrMyth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMyth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518/20 "2003-10-09T21:04:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MonkeyMule \* > \*\*I’ve had more stimulating conversations with my testicles \*\* Its funny 'cause its true. That aside, I kinda see where he’s coming from with regards to rap - it is largely the creation of young black culture. As a person of said culture, I had to choke back a reflex to attack back when someone attacked rap. I found though, that as I got older, I stopped giving a hot shit what somebody else thinks is music. A whole album full of fucking cricket farts could get released and win a Grammy nowadays. I won’t think its music, but some new-age cricket-fucker probably will. Deal with it. And let’s not forget the old familiar rephrain that 90% of what you hear on radio is crap anyway. For anyone who holds up Nelly as representative of rap not being music I usually remind them of Nickelback.😛 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-make-me-sick/206518.md?page=2)