# People of modest means who decide to have huge families- Why? Is it religious belief? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 17, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481 "2009-04-17T23:21:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/21 "2009-04-19T07:58:07Z")
Sometimes it can be cultural. There are cultures where children are seen as “wealth,” and the more you can produce, the more status you have. This is something that makes sense in agrarian cultures, where more kids means more labor means more production, but isn’t such a great scheme if they immigrate to more urban environments. I also suspect there might be a phenomenon in some people which is akin to addiction – they get addicted to the emotional high of making new babies, and want to keep recreating that moment over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Rascal\_s\_Mom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a698b9/32.png) [@Rascal\_s\_Mom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rascal_s_Mom)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/22 "2009-04-19T14:21:38Z")
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned the Duggars. I think it’s religion on their part, but I still don’t know how they support themselves on one income. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/23 "2009-04-19T14:38:18Z")
Well, my husband is one of five kids - if six is “huge”, I’m guessing five is “pretty darn big” - and didn’t have much money, although of course in those days pretty much everybody here in Troll Country had less money than they do now. Religion had nothing to do with it; although the family was nominally Lutheran, religion was simply not a particularly big part of their lives. His parents had one sibling each, and in both cases the sibling was several years younger; they felt lonely as kids and thought happiness must be having lots of brothers and sisters. Did their five children agree? Well, all of them have reproduced, but no one has had more than three biological children. (One has three biological children _and_ two stepchildren, for a total of five - the yours-mine-and-ours style of family that’s already been mentioned.) I also know a couple of well-to-do families who are currently raising five children. Do we assume their motives are different because they can afford new cars and don’t do hand-me-downs, or is it just that nobody expects them to explain themselves…? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/24 "2009-04-19T14:53:31Z")
I knew a women who married a guy with five kids from his first marriage. They divorced because she wanted more kids and he didn’t (the last two kids had been ‘intentional accidents.’) In her case it wasn’t religion, she had a baby addiction - little interest in the kids as preschoolers or older, but she LOVED being pregnant, she LOVED having babies. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/25 "2009-04-19T15:34:25Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > A lot of Orthodox Jews in New York have huge families and are far from wealthy. Some people assume that all Jews have the magic gift of moneymaking or something, but it isn’t true. There are a lot of Orthodox Jews in Queens and in other places in NY who basically do nothing but study the Torah, and they work whatever lousy jobs they can get to pay the bills. Plenty of them are on welfare. And they typically have giant families. They study because they believe sky-buddy commands it, and presumably, they reproduce prolifically for the same reasons. ---
**Author:** ![MissGypsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@MissGypsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissGypsy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/26 "2009-04-19T22:40:11Z")
I’m the youngest of 5 girls, so I’m used to having a large family. Dad worked in a factory, while Mom stayed home and raised kids. I married a man who had two kids, and I already had one of my own, and then we had two more together. (His two are now adults, so it’s not as if I was around for their childhood, though.) I would have had more, if we were younger, but my age makes it too risky. We’re not dirt poor, not rich, just of average, modest means, and we manage to make ends meet. We’re not the least bit religious, either. I’m just used to having a houseful, and it’s pretty normal if that’s how one grew up. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/27 "2009-04-20T01:20:28Z")
The Duggars follow the quiverfull movement which basically says they have as many kids as God gives them [Quiverfull - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/28 "2009-04-20T01:40:14Z")
My wife is one of five children, and in her parents’ case it certainly wasn’t religion – her parents are Chinese. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/29 "2009-04-20T18:42:32Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > A lot of Orthodox Jews in New York have huge families and are far from wealthy. Some people assume that all Jews have the magic gift of moneymaking or something, but it isn’t true. There are a lot of Orthodox Jews in Queens and in other places in NY who basically do nothing but study the Torah, and they work whatever lousy jobs they can get to pay the bills. Plenty of them are on welfare. And they typically have giant families. Having children is a big thing in Judaism. The first commandment in the Torah is “Be fruitful and multiply”. The Talmud says that if everyone is created in the image of God, more children means more Godliness in the world. And contraceptives usually aren’t allowed. Thus, you get huge families. My best friend from high school was one of nine. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/30 "2009-04-20T19:24:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Sometimes it can be cultural. There are cultures where children are seen as “wealth,” and the more you can produce, the more status you have. This is something that makes sense in agrarian cultures, where more kids means more labor means more production, but isn’t such a great scheme if they immigrate to more urban environments. > > I also suspect there might be a phenomenon in some people which is akin to addiction – they get addicted to the emotional high of making new babies, and want to keep recreating that moment over and over again. Also, I think alot of it has to do with the fact that the Mom is afraid of getting old and possibly rejoining the real world. I know two women (one is a cousin by marriage the other was my HS best friend. Both are very catholic.) who have 17 kids between them, that every time The Baby was going off to preschool, they would get pregnant again because they couldn’t bear to have empty arms. I think it is delaying reality and the fear of having to work with other non-parents/ non-mom’s out there. YMMV, but having a convo with them outside of kids is near impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/31 "2009-04-20T20:19:39Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > And contraceptives usually aren’t allowed. Thus, you get huge families. In _Orthodox_ Judaism. Contraception is officially left up to the couple in Reform Judaism. I’m Conservative and don’t have any kids, and I haven’t gotten any pressure on that front except from my mother-in-law and Mr. Neville’s grandparents (which I don’t think has much to do with religion). ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/32 "2009-04-20T20:22:22Z")
I think in the case of my parents, who both came from huge families, it was about playing the odds, combined with poverty, growing up in a rural/undeveloped part of a third world country and limited access to effective birth control. They both have several siblings who did not make it and the infant mortality rate was very high in those days. On my mother’s side, it was specifically about having as many boys as possible. My grandparents had 10 girls between 2 boys (5 of the girls survived). None of my aunts or uncles have more than 2 kids and I’m one of 2. However, my parents strongly suspect that most of them have sex selected through abortion, which is increasingly common in our culture. I know my father talked his sister out of aborting her second daughter. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/33 "2009-04-20T20:40:26Z")
Relevant link from [Intelligent Life Magazine](http://moreintelligentlife.com/story/faith-equals-fertility), Winter 2008 ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481/34 "2009-04-20T21:20:18Z")
A part of the issue is that many social welfare programs pay more for larger families, e.g. you get a bigger food allowance and qualify for a bigger apartment, etc. I don’t think a lot of low income people are having kids for the sake of getting more welfare, but it does mean that such people don’t face the same financial constraints that income people do. IOW, if companies automatically gave people raises whenever they had children (or business automatically improved for the self-employed) you would find a lot more higher-income people having larger families as well. But as it is, people of “means” face financial constraints that many people of “modest means” don’t, which skews the ratio, on average. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-of-modest-means-who-decide-to-have-huge-families-why-is-it-religious-belief/493481.md?page=1)