# People Scaming Your Tax Refunds **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 15, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-scaming-your-tax-refunds/615877 "2012-03-15T17:45:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-scaming-your-tax-refunds/615877/41 "2012-03-16T03:55:52Z")
> [@grude](#): > > They didn’t. BUT… > > The IRS could and would put federal tax liens on everything either parent owned, which sounds like it could be several million dollars in property at least(the business and their house/s at least and any bank accounts). > > So the daughter could end up mortgaging her own home to keep the business running and pay bills until the whole thing gets settled, why would she do this? Well if you let them just take the property the liens are on they usually sell it for pennies and you don’t want your parents millions dissapearing. Wait a sec … Earlier you said the IRS “forced” her to repay the money. Now you are saying that it was her choice, and they didn’t go after her at all. How does that equal “forced”? 😕 Their assets were over 1.5M, now it’s “several million” and the business even _after_ the business had already been sold? 300k has turned into “several million” worth of liens and potential sales of several million dollars of assets for “pennies on the dollar”??? Isn’t it usually more in the range of 25% less than market value up to the amount of the lien? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-scaming-your-tax-refunds/615877/42 "2012-03-16T04:12:11Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > Wait a sec … Earlier you said the IRS “forced” her to repay the money. Now you are saying that it was her choice, and they didn’t go after her at all. How does that equal “forced”? 😕 > > Their assets were over 1.5M, now it’s “several million” and the business even _after_ the business had already been sold? > > 300k has turned into “several million” worth of liens and potential sales of several million dollars of assets for “pennies on the dollar”??? Isn’t it usually more in the range of 25% less than market value up to the amount of the lien? Sorry I am not the poster, I was just offering a plausible scenario where the GF could end up in debt due to her parents. My own parents had a federal tax lien and it basically prevents you from doing anything with the property, can’t use it as collateral or sell it until the lien is paid off. Tax lawyers advised them NOT to just turn the property over to the IRS because they would sell it far below its actual value, and then they would still owe whatever was left. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-scaming-your-tax-refunds/615877/43 "2012-03-16T04:20:43Z")
Re-read the thread. As I said earlier, her parent’s estate was around 1.5 million when they entered the nursing home. That was _after_ they had sold the business they had run. They also owned a house As I said, I’ll collect all the information. Until then, I’d like to remind people, especially **LurkerInNJ** that this is a good friend of mine. She is honest, sane and has been through the wringer. Hold off your judgements until you actually get some information, or at least promise me that, when you are proven wrong, you will offer a sincere apology. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-scaming-your-tax-refunds/615877/44 "2012-03-16T04:33:06Z")
OK, I don’t have a dog in this fight, so I’m going to assume that the story as told to **gaffa** is true. **gaffa** , do you at least concede that (a) your friend doesn’t owe the IRS a thing; (b) that she should not be trying to pay them anything for this particular “debt”; and © she should be fighting this hard in both public court and the court of public opinion? ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-scaming-your-tax-refunds/615877/45 "2012-03-16T04:33:34Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Sorry I am not the poster, I was just offering a plausible scenario where the GF could end up in debt due to her parents. > > My own parents had a federal tax lien and it basically prevents you from doing anything with the property, can’t use it as collateral or sell it until the lien is paid off. Tax lawyers advised them NOT to just turn the property over to the IRS because they would sell it far below its actual value, and then they would still owe whatever was left. Your parents should get a second opinion— a different and maybe better representative could possibly get the lien temporarily removed so they can sell the property. And **Gaffa** , all I’m saying here is that is not how Power of Attorneys work. Debt does not transfer with a Power of Attorney. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-scaming-your-tax-refunds/615877/46 "2012-03-16T14:35:01Z")
> [@grude](#): > > My own parents had a federal tax lien and it basically prevents you from doing anything with the property, can’t use it as collateral or sell it until the lien is paid off. That’s not true. Depending on the circumstances, you can get the lien released or subordinated. That doesn’t mean paid off. I deal with this 2 or 3 times a year. Look at the IRS website for the process [http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=201343,00.html](http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=201343,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-scaming-your-tax-refunds/615877/47 "2012-03-16T14:56:03Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > That’s not true. Depending on the circumstances, you can get the lien released or subordinated. That doesn’t mean paid off. I deal with this 2 or 3 times a year. > > Look at the IRS website for the process > [http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=201343,00.html](http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=201343,00.html) I remember that for some reason the IRS would not release it in their case(bad lawyer?), it was more than a decade ago in any case and I was a kid at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-scaming-your-tax-refunds/615877/48 "2012-03-19T01:38:49Z")
Yeesh. I think it would be pointless to further discuss the specifics of gaffa’s story–here’s the bottom line IMHO: after someone gets scammed, it can take some time to get things figured out. Gaffa’s friend is still in the middle of the path between “got scammed” and “it got figured out.” Seems like both sides could buy the above and stop worrying about the details. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-scaming-your-tax-refunds/615877/49 "2012-03-20T14:50:20Z")
Article on CNN about this: [IRS policies help fuel tax refund fraud, officials say](http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/us/tax-refund-scam/index.html?hpt=hp_c1) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-scaming-your-tax-refunds/615877.md?page=2)