# People tell you to stand up for yourself, but get mad when you do **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 22, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259 "2015-11-22T01:59:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/21 "2015-11-23T15:52:18Z")
I was raised with the help the neighbor type philosophy. If a buddy was helping somebody move I would see myself as helping my buddy. After several years of no volunteer reciprocation I no longer volunteer unless I really feel like it. No has gotten much easier for me also. If someone doesn’t take no for an answer I tend to get a little rude quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/22 "2015-11-24T14:47:44Z")
What I have been able to determine by thorough and careful analysis of this entire system of behavior is that fuck them. The problem is, understanding this leaves me miles and miles from being able to act in my best interests with even passable consistency, with my spouse. With everybody else I manage the relationships just fine, it works great, I never feel taken advantage of and they don’t complain about how I am. There’s a lot of great observations and advice in the other posts here, and no reason not to use same. It ain’t about reason, though. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/23 "2015-11-24T15:32:46Z")
Spouse is a bit of a different case than any other. Everybody else on Earth runs the gamut from someone you never interact with ever to folks you pass on the street to shopkeepers to neighbors to acquantances to distant friends to coworkers to close friends to business partners. Relatives are a different kettle of fish but also run the gamut from no interaction to close frequent interaction. There’s lots of room along that continuum for going along together and for going separate ways. And in either direction for good, bad, or no reasons at all. Spouse is (or at least ought to be) different. You’re trying to meld into essentially one dual-bodied personality. That requires a lot more commonality of purpose and intent. And more give and take and less “my way is \*the \*way”. Reading the 'Dope it seems a lot of people are married to folks who don’t get that. I often wonder how it is that so few married 'Dopers are themselves that way; only their (ex-)spouses. It’s truly a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/24 "2015-11-24T16:57:49Z")
Thanks for that reminder, LSL. Seriously, you helped me reflect on how I should improve how I sometimes approach interactions with my spouse. ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/25 "2015-11-24T17:13:44Z")
Fully agree with the advice to never give a reason. A calm, but firm, ‘no’ is virtually impossible to argue with. ---
**Author:** ![velvetjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5f9b8f/32.png) [@velvetjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velvetjones)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/26 "2015-11-24T17:43:34Z")
I have found it useful to practice saying No in a way that’s nice. After all, sometimes the people I’m saying no to are my friends and family who I love and don’t want to treat poorly. No, I’m sorry, I can’t. No, that doesn’t work for me. No, I’d rather not. No, but thank you for asking. Repeat as necessary until the message is received, always with a smile and be prepared to change the subject abruptly if pressed on the subject. For example: Do you want to go see this movie with me? No, not really. Why not. I don’t really want to see it. Oh, please I don’t want to go by myself. No, but thanks for asking…hey, how’s your dog, kitten, daughter, dad, mom, job, modeling career? I heard xyz about that is it true? Now you’ve said no, with a smile, stood your ground and by extending the conversation let it be known that you still want to be their friend. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![Carryon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Carryon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carryon)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/27 "2015-11-24T18:36:05Z")
There is a very thin line between being assertive and aggressive and it varies from person to person. Figuring out that line is often quite hard. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/28 "2015-11-24T19:26:22Z")
Agree with the various comments about assertion versus aggression. But it’s important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is nothing wrong with aggression. If that’s what it takes to accomplish your goal after assertion fails against a particularly hard-headed opposition. So while one ought not go directly for the collar-grabbing spittle-flying threat of instant bloody death unless someone agrees to all your demands instantly, one also needs to ensure one isn’t paralyzed by the fear of crossing that indistinct line between assertive-enough and more-assertive-than-minimally-necessary. Or _heaven forfend_, crossing the line into, gasp, aggression :eek: in pursuit of one’s interests. Your goals and interests are exactly as valid and important to the world at large as anyone elses’. Nobody deserves to go ahead of you, nor is anyone required to go behind you. And your goals and interests are exactly as valid and important to \*you \*as anyone else’s goals and interests are to _them_. Just as their goals trump yours in their mind, you’re free to have your goals trump theirs in your mind. Simply don’t deal with people who refuse to understand the essential reciprocity of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/29 "2015-11-25T02:55:13Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > One of my philosophies is that the world would run a lot smoother if people would ask outright and take NO for an answer. I’d be with you, but go tell it to the folks **dracoi** described, who consider it the opening round in a negotiation, and who’d say to you the converse, that a no-haggle world would run really rough. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/30 "2015-11-25T11:57:19Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Spouse is a bit of a different case than any other. > > […] > > Reading the 'Dope it seems a lot of people are married to folks who don’t get that. I often wonder how it is that so few married 'Dopers are themselves that way; only their (ex-)spouses. It’s truly a mystery. Those of us who struggle with this may tend to choose spouses who don’t get that. Not that we will dominate the Dope, but we will tend to congregate in threads about the subject. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/31 "2015-11-25T13:16:36Z")
Agreed on both points. I hope I didn’t sound like I was accusing you specifically of hypocrisy. All of us are better at spotting motes in others’ eyes than in our own. Myself included. ---
**Author:** ![Dragwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dragwyr/32/2855_2.png) [@Dragwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragwyr)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/32 "2015-11-25T13:25:16Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I’d be with you, but go tell it to the folks **dracoi** described, who consider it the opening round in a negotiation, and who’d say to you the converse, that a no-haggle world would run really rough. Which is where being confident in your decision and respectfully, but firmly asserting your “No” comes in. I think most people don’t have a problem saying no. I think the problem is they don’t want to argue about it and they don’t want to hurt any feelings. ---
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259/33 "2015-11-25T17:17:12Z")
> [@velvetjones](#): > > For example: > Do you want to go see this movie with me? > No, not really. > Why not. > I don’t really want to see it. > Oh, please I don’t want to go by myself. > No, but thanks for asking…hey, how’s your dog, kitten, daughter, dad, mom, job, modeling career? I heard xyz about that is it true? > > Now you’ve said no, with a smile, stood your ground and by extending the conversation let it be known that you still want to be their friend. This, a thousand times this. When you’re dealing with someone you will or want to have a continued relationship with, having “no” be the last word is indeed awkward and fairly hostile. So changing the subject in a friendly way let’s the other person know that your “no” is firm, that there are no hard feelings, and most importantly gives the person asking an easy way to back off their request. In my experience, this is the part most people who are uncomfortable standing up for themselves don’t get at first, and why they feel like it’s aggressive. Also, people who have trouble with this part, often have trouble with the reverse. It is expected that if you’re an adult and you need something, you will stand up for yourself and ask once or twice - and not take it personally if your request is refused. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-tell-you-to-stand-up-for-yourself-but-get-mad-when-you-do/738259.md?page=1)