# People That Are So Self Absorbed **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 16, 2015, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957 "2015-01-16T06:56:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/21 "2015-01-17T21:56:48Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > "What the fuck kind of category is that? " doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what non-fiction is. It means he considers it to be a bad way to categorize books, as if we were talking about our favorite type of movie and I said “Color”. Exactly. He’s right. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/22 "2015-01-18T00:17:35Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Exactly. He’s right. It’s worse than that. It’s like asking if someone like books and he says, “I only like to read blue ones.” It’s practically a non sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/23 "2015-01-18T01:09:20Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > …The “Participation Trophy” was first popularized in the late 70s/early 80s. That first batch of “kids” are nearing their 50s now. Yes, they would be in their 40s and their offspring would be in their 20s, give or take a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/24 "2015-01-18T16:11:41Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > But there is better. You mostly file by Dewey? So hang signs on the end of every shelf listing the Dewey divisions within (or just the class, depending what makes sense for the relative quantities of each). No need to just call it all “nonfiction.” There is no need for “nonfiction” to appear anywhere in library signage, really. Well, yeah. I can’t imagine a library that doesn’t do that. But I just meant that “fiction” is a nice, descriptive word and “non-fiction” is a clumsy placeholder that boils down to “not fiction” for a lot of people. It’s why so many of them think of it as a genre. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/25 "2015-01-18T16:59:36Z")
I say that I read non-fiction all the time. There is a subtext in that answer that some of you are too… oh, what’s the word…“self-absorbed?” to understand. It means, “I don’t read the crappy novels you dorks pass around and pretend you’re on the cutting edge of the literary world.” It says: Don’t ask me about “50 Shades of Gray,” or “Gone Girl,” or my favorite Harry Potter spell, or how I felt about Bella’s baby in “Twilight,” or whether I think “The Hunger Games” could happen here. But I do read books, just not nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/26 "2015-01-18T20:15:05Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > I say that I read non-fiction all the time. There is a subtext in that answer that some of you are too… oh, what’s the word…“self-absorbed?” to understand. It means, “I don’t read the crappy novels you dorks pass around and pretend you’re on the cutting edge of the literary world.” It says: Don’t ask me about “50 Shades of Gray,” or “Gone Girl,” or my favorite Harry Potter spell, or how I felt about Bella’s baby in “Twilight,” or whether I think “The Hunger Games” could happen here. > > But I do read books, just not nonsense. This is funny. You know “non-fiction” isn’t a synonym for “prestige” right? The subtext is that they’re “not fiction.” Mein Kampf is non-fiction. Glenn Beck’s books are non-fiction. The Unabomber’s anti-technology screeds are non-fiction. As a descriptor, “non-fiction” means nothing. Also, Twilight, Harry Potter, and The Hunger Games are all award-winning novels. You can bash them all you like, but the people who curate children’s and teen fiction believe they are the best of the best. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/27 "2015-01-18T21:04:59Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > This is funny. You know “non-fiction” isn’t a synonym for “prestige” right? The subtext is that they’re “not fiction.” Mein Kampf is non-fiction. Glenn Beck’s books are non-fiction. The Unabomber’s anti-technology screeds are non-fiction. As a descriptor, “non-fiction” means nothing. > > Also, Twilight, Harry Potter, and The Hunger Games are all award-winning novels. You can bash them all you like, but the people who curate children’s and teen fiction believe they are the best of the best. yeah, this. “non-fiction” can cover biographies, historical books, self-help, programming, the service manual for a 1977 Chevy Vega, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/28 "2015-01-18T21:13:08Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > This is funny. You know “non-fiction” isn’t a synonym for “prestige” right? The subtext is that they’re “not fiction.” You know you’re making my point for me, right? “I only read non-fiction” doesn’t say much, no duh, but it DOES SAY, “I don’t read novels.” That is EXACTLY the message I want to send. It is not very difficult, in my experience, for articulate people to find the words that would convey a message along the lines of, “Well, what kinds of non-fiction do you read?” if they truly want an answer. More likely, they want to discuss a current novel, or genre, and hope we have a novel in common. We never do. Because I don’t read them. But I have found that saying, “I only read non-fiction,” is viewed as far less judgmental than saying, “I don’t read novels.” And it still spares me from discussions of vampires, wizards, missing wives, and dystopian futures. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_doped](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@straight\_doped](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_doped)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/29 "2015-01-18T21:40:34Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > You know you’re making my point for me, right? “I only read non-fiction” doesn’t say much, no duh, but it DOES SAY, “I don’t read novels.” That is EXACTLY the message I want to send. It is not very difficult, in my experience, for articulate people to find the words that would convey a message along the lines of, “Well, what kinds of non-fiction do you read?” if they truly want an answer. More likely, they want to discuss a current novel, or genre, and hope we have a novel in common. We never do. Because I don’t read them. > > But I have found that saying, “I only read non-fiction,” is viewed as far less judgmental than saying, “I don’t read novels.” **And it still spares me from discussions of vampires, wizards, missing wives, and dystopian futures**. you can find all this kind of stuff in the bible. which is located in the non-fiction section of your local library. happy reading, this great book will give you PLENTY to talk about with your peers. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/30 "2015-01-18T22:06:36Z")
Um, other than Fiction and Non-Fiction, what is there? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/31 "2015-01-18T22:23:32Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > But I have found that saying, “I only read non-fiction,” is viewed as far less judgmental than saying, “I don’t read novels.” And it still spares me from discussions of vampires, wizards, missing wives, and dystopian futures. It sounds to me you don’t want any discussion, period. I’m an avid reader of non-fiction too. If someone were to ask me what I like to read, I wouldn’t say “non-fiction”. I’d say “science and psychology stuff”. Why? Because maybe they’re into this kind of stuff too. Maybe they’ve read something I might be interested in. “Non-fiction” is too broad for a meaningful exchange of ideas. If I told someone “I only read non-fiction”, I’d be communicating, “I’m only interested in giving vague responses so that you don’t engage me further.” It’s a non-answer to a reasonable question. Not everyone who reads novels is into vampires and wizards. I’m reading a fantastic historical novel recommended to me–the non-fiction fan–by someone who only reads novels. It pays not to be a snob sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/32 "2015-01-18T23:06:49Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It sounds to me you don’t want any discussion, period. > > … > > If I told someone “I only read non-fiction”, I’d be communicating, “I’m only interested in giving vague responses so that you don’t engage me further.” It’s a non-answer to a reasonable question. I’ve already said I’d discuss it. I also said, in my experience, with the people I know and meet, “What do you read?” usually means, “Have you read any of the trendy novels I have?” I didn’t say that question ALWAYS means that in the English-speaking world. That’s what, “In my experience,” means. My post was in response to posters claiming “non-fiction” is so broad a response as to be a non sequitur or otherwise completely unhelpful. It isn’t. At the very least it conveys, “no novels,” which are quite popular and often the subject of polite conversation. There’s no snobbery involved. In fact, “I only read non-fiction” is usually received as LESS SNOBBISH than saying, “I don’t read novels.” Again, in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/33 "2015-01-18T23:43:28Z")
No, it’s fine to say you never read non-fiction. It’s not an answer, but it tells a lot about yourself, and that’s useful. You’ve never read _Of Mice and Men_ or _Hamlet_ or _One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest_ or _Catch-22_, you’ve never read Dante’s _Divine Comedy_ or Shakespeare’s sonnets or _Moby Dick_, You’ve never read _Frankenstein_ or _20,000 Leagues Under the Sea_ or _Huck Finn_. You haven’t said what you do read, but just knowing what you don’t read enables me to make an appraisal of whether there’s any value in continuing this conversation. Edited to add, especially because you seem so smug about the fact that you haven’t read any of these. Not just ignorant, but proud, smug overweening ignorance. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/34 "2015-01-19T01:39:58Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > No, it’s fine to say you never read non-fiction. It’s not an answer, but it tells a lot about yourself, and that’s useful. You’ve never read _Of Mice and Men_ or _Hamlet_ or _One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest_ or _Catch-22_, you’ve never read Dante’s _Divine Comedy_ or Shakespeare’s sonnets or _Moby Dick_, You’ve never read _Frankenstein_ or _20,000 Leagues Under the Sea_ or _Huck Finn_. You haven’t said what you do read, but just knowing what you don’t read enables me to make an appraisal of whether there’s any value in continuing this conversation. > > Edited to add, especially because you seem so smug about the fact that you haven’t read any of these. Not just ignorant, but proud, smug overweening ignorance. Well done. Your first sentence makes clear you cannot follow my, apparently very complicated, argument. The rest of your nonsense makes clear you cannot distinguish between present and past tenses in English. “I don’t play football, or the tenor sax, or take piano lessons, or camp, or debate on a college team, or lose my virginity, or read novels from an 11th grade English syllabus.” Does not mean, “I HAVE NEVER done those things.” In fact, I have. It means, “I NO LONGER do them.” If you frequently re-read, “Huck Finn,” you’re right: we have very little to talk about. Which is why if you were to open a conversation with me with, “Soooo, whadya read for fun?” I’d immediately reply, “non-fiction.” Then you could go discuss Lennie killing things with the nearest 16-year-olds you could find. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/35 "2015-01-19T14:38:17Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Um, other than Fiction and Non-Fiction, what is there? Political. Quite a blend of the two. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/36 "2015-01-19T18:17:53Z")
I have found in my world that the words: Always Never With out fail You can’t or any absolute statement in regards to people or myself. Get bit in the butt by doing that, a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/37 "2015-01-19T22:22:56Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > If you frequently re-read, “Huck Finn,” you’re right: we have very little to talk about. Which is why if you were to open a conversation with me with, “Soooo, whadya read for fun?” I’d immediately reply, “non-fiction.” Then you could go discuss Lennie killing things with the nearest 16-year-olds you could find. You continue to link fiction (all fiction, it seems) with children, so I’ve gotta ask, why? ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/38 "2015-01-20T16:00:37Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > You continue to link fiction (all fiction, it seems) with children, so I’ve gotta ask, why? Because **Bill Door** claimed I’d never read _Huck Finn_ or _Of Mice and Men_. I used his examples, which I think he got from an 11th grade English syllabus. **HE** chose those as examples of good novels. I didn’t. In my own examples, earlier in the thread, such as Harry Potter and Twilight, those were included with the others because I’ve heard adults discuss them. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/39 "2015-01-20T16:45:57Z")
**Grotonian** pretty much matches to a T every person I’ve ever met who says “I like non-fiction best” or “I like documentaries best” (and that what they really mean is “I only watch documentaries” and “I only read non-fiction” if they didn’t start by saying that). A living example for my previous post. It always makes me goggle a bit how a person can see no value in culture. Stories affect and encapsulate our morals and values over time, the very stuff that makes us “human”, and yet they see nothing in it. Incredible. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957/40 "2015-01-20T17:26:38Z")
Well, _culture_ is a lot bigger than fiction. One can be an active participant in and appreciator of culture, without reading much fiction. > [@Macca26](#): > > Stories affect and encapsulate our morals and values over time No doubt. But those stories need not be fictional. Still, it would be missing something deep and vital to _never_ read fiction–just like, say, never listening to music, or never looking at visual arts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-that-are-so-self-absorbed/709957.md?page=3)