# People thinking of having children, can you consider the following points? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 7, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766 "2017-09-07T23:11:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/41 "2017-09-08T03:29:26Z")
Somebody’s mom missed their birthday - Again! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/42 "2017-09-08T09:46:22Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > Why are you planning to impose certain death and suffering, and all the deprivations that come with the disgraceful slavery of biological existeqnce, onto an innocent being? Would it not be better to leave **that being in a place** where they cannot possibly experience death, pain, suffering, misery, etc etc? To **what “being”** do you refer here? And **what “place”**? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/43 "2017-09-08T11:17:03Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > This is for people thinking of procreating at some point in the future: > > -Your future child does not need to be born > > - Your future child is not asking to be born > - There is no pain, suffering, or deprivation in the realm of non existence > - Your future child is guaranteed to experience pain, suffering, and deprivation. > - Your future child is guaranteed to die - Your future child is guaranteed to be born naked. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/44 "2017-09-08T11:40:44Z")
I remember when I first discovered Radiohead too. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/45 "2017-09-08T12:02:59Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > You are assigning a teleology to something which has no such thing. _A hen is only an egg’s way of making another egg._ [RIGHT]–Samuel Butler [/RIGHT] ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/46 "2017-09-08T12:08:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Kantian imperative. So dull. > > Reading ahead, are you? They don’t usually teach this stuff in Intro to Philosophy until after mid-terms. Nah, he’s already out of college–[the five most useless, pointless, and boring years of his life](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=827102). ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/47 "2017-09-08T12:33:24Z")
The OP appears to think he’s being rational, but rejects basic scientific fact and asserts subjective opinion as if it is fact. These are the tricky ones, because they frame their arguments in a way that appears rational, despite the fact they can’t be reasoned with. I think there are some reasonable positions for choosing not to add more people to the planet, but this isn’t one of them. He doesn’t need a good counter argument, he needs Prozac. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/48 "2017-09-08T12:49:56Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Nah, he’s already out of college–[the five most useless, pointless, and boring years of his life](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=827102). He must have skipped biology. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/49 "2017-09-08T13:17:38Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > He must have skipped biology. Should have skipped philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/50 "2017-09-08T13:22:54Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > This is for people thinking of procreating at some point in the future: > > -Your future child does not need to be born > > - Your future child is not asking to be born > - There is no pain, suffering, or deprivation in the realm of non existence > - Your future child is guaranteed to experience pain, suffering, and deprivation. > - Your future child is guaranteed to die If I thought of life like I would not only NOT have kids, I will have suicidal urges all the time. Thankfully, I don’t believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/51 "2017-09-08T13:49:24Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > No, we are not Yeah, we are. It’s the single most basic issue in evolution - we exist to propagate our genes. This is how biology works. > [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > This is a silly semantic game. I’m glad we are in agreement about _something_. Wait, we were talking about this thread, right? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/52 "2017-09-08T14:17:52Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Should have skipped philosophy. My philosophy classes were full of this sort of thing. Maybe that’s why it sticks in my craw. For about two years in college, I was a philosophy major. I studied a lot of existentialism and I’m well aware how maudlin it can be and how hard it is to draw from that well without being poisoned. But at some point, you get over it. You take what’s helpful and you leave the rest. Eventually you cobble together some meaning and purpose and accept that sure, life may be absent objective meaning and it may entail a lot of suffering, but that doesn’t mean it’s pointless. To find meaning when you are severely clinically depressed is particularly difficult, but I managed. And if you are inclined toward existential despair, constructing meaning is something you have to do in every moment for the rest of your life. But I’d rather do that than persist in a fatalistic state that requires me to criticize and shame others in order to justify my own messed up worldview. Misanthropes leave a bad taste in my mouth. The nihilists and existentialists weren’t exactly playing with a full deck and they don’t corner the market on reality. For all my love of Nietzsche, the man was a seriously mentally ill self-contradictory mess. He was crazypants. Most of the great existentialists were, which should give you a clue about how seriously you should take their arguments. I think they are only useful if you’re crazypants, too, and need to manually construct life’s meaning because your brain chemicals aren’t supplying it naturally. (Most people don’t have to work at wanting to be alive.) As one of those crazypants people, I often forget that most people don’t think about that stuff or find it relevant. The upshot is that the people studying and engaging on the subject will more often than not be biased toward depression. You end up in an echo chamber full of depressed people in the quest to find meaning and yet posit that you’ve found some philosophical “truth.” Even if the OP is not himself depressed, his views are directly influenced by the dysfunctional neurology of others. There’s nothing remotely objective there. In the grander scheme, existentialists were separate from classic philosophers precisely because they were making emotional arguments rather than rational ones - a fact which horrified their academic contemporaries. The OP is making an emotional argument and begging the hell out of the question. Marcus (as Machinaforce often does) is taking subjective nihilistic ideas and acting as if they are irrefutable fact. This is silly. I’m a fan of existentialism and prone to existential despair, and even I think this is silly. There is no final word on whether existence is worthwhile. Now I’m all inspired to re-read some Nietzsche… Who doesn’t depress me at all. If you ask me, he was the answer to nihilism’s “so what’s the point?” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/53 "2017-09-08T14:25:11Z")
Speaking as another crazypants person, I note with some irony (given the OP) that having a child has given me more meaning and purpose in life than anything else has. Being responsible for another human being forces me to be much less self-obsessed and self-pitying, and has offered great solace and relief from the “pain, suffering and deprivation” of living with my own myriad dysfunctions. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/54 "2017-09-08T14:30:10Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > This is a silly semantic game. > [@Acsenray](#): > > irony! _The agony and the irony, they’re killing me…_ ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/55 "2017-09-08T14:31:15Z")
Actually, although not in sympathy with any of the OP, I have realized that full equality between the sexes can never come about whilst young women are at the mercy of a need to procreate. Therefore a perfect solution for Mrs. Clinton, now she’s missed the presidency, will be for her together with like-minded old girls, to tour the world persuading females aged 15 to 30 not to want babies. The OP might like to join in. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/56 "2017-09-08T14:33:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > _The agony and the irony, they’re killing me…_ _He’s not sick, but he’s not well…_😉 ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/57 "2017-09-08T14:38:13Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Speaking as another crazypants person, I note with some irony (given the OP) that having a child has given me more meaning and purpose in life than anything else has. Being responsible for another human being forces me to be much less self-obsessed and self-pitying, and has offered great solace and relief from the “pain, suffering and deprivation” of living with my own myriad dysfunctions. Where’s the like button? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/58 "2017-09-08T14:55:11Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > He doesn’t need a good counter argument, he needs Prozac. I am so stealing this - I may even make it my Sig, would you mind? Of course I’d give you credit 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/59 "2017-09-08T14:57:24Z")
Go for it! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766/60 "2017-09-08T15:00:03Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > I am so stealing this - I may even make it my Sig, would you mind? Of course I’d give you credit > 😃 I’m stealing S/W’s, “He’s cites are bad and he should feel bad”, from the other thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-thinking-of-having-children-can-you-consider-the-following-points/795766.md?page=4)