# People who are judged to be both good and evil. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 27, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888 "2011-04-27T13:37:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Scot\_Dutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Scot\_Dutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scot_Dutch)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/21 "2011-04-27T17:44:23Z")
> [@Beadalin](#): > > Che Guevara is a pretty polarizing figure. Perfect example. How bout Hugo Chavez? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/22 "2011-04-27T17:46:58Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Napoleon. > > Did some [good](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_code) stuff, did some [bad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars) stuff. Popular among the French, the rest of Europe not such big fans. And what about the Napoleonian Code Wars? ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/23 "2011-04-27T17:49:57Z")
Margaret Thatcher would be near the head of the queue of recent politicians here, with Tony Blair coming up on the outside rail for many people (including some of the same people). If it had not been for WW2 then Churchill would have a terrible reputation; General Strike, Gallipolli. I know, that’s a bit of a, “Apart from that, how did you enjoy the play Mrs Lincoln” statement… ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/24 "2011-04-27T17:59:10Z")
I think Fritz Haber woulld qualify, it is said that his work has allowed the continued survival of 2 out of every 5 people currently alive, he was resonsible for the synthesis of nitrates for use in fertisliser, it also allowed the WW1 german war machine to continue far longer than it might have. He is probably the classic case of mixed achievement. > **[Fritz Haber: Jewish chemist whose work led to Zyklon B](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13015210)** > > The German Jewish chemist Fritz Haber's astonishing career led to millions of lives saved, and millions of lives lost, reports Chris Bowlby. He genuinely believed that poison gas would shorten WW1 and save lives ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/25 "2011-04-27T18:38:39Z")
Bill Clinton Barack Obama …however ridiculous it is to call them evil, people still do. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/26 "2011-04-27T18:51:57Z")
The Pope (pick your ‘favorite’) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/27 "2011-04-28T01:34:59Z")
I’m surprised no one has brought up Ronald Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/28 "2011-04-28T01:43:18Z")
I tried to, but there was a night watchman. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/29 "2011-04-28T02:13:24Z")
John D. Rockefeller Andrew Carnegie William T. Sherman Ulysses S. Grant Oliver Cromwell Henry VIII Henry Kissinger ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/30 "2011-04-28T02:26:44Z")
> [@Reno\_Nevada](#): > > The Venerable Mother Theresa? We have debate on these very boards by people who venerate/vilify her. I must admit to being quite amused by people who were OUTRAGED by her memoirs, wherein she admitted to not always having been a nun, and owned up to having had Teh Seks before becoming one. For some reason, even parts of her supporters went all “what a wanton SLUT !” about it. I guess it ain’t easy livin’ on a pedestal not of one’s making. ---
**Author:** ![jinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jinty)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/31 "2011-04-28T13:00:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I must admit to being quite amused by people who were OUTRAGED by her memoirs, wherein she admitted to not always having been a nun, and owned up to having had Teh Seks before becoming one. For some reason, even parts of her supporters went all “what a wanton SLUT !” about it. I guess it ain’t easy livin’ on a pedestal not of one’s making. There are other non-prurient reasons for which she’s villified. Christopher Hitchens famously (or infamously, depending on your point of view) has carried on a long campaign against her, writing books and [articles](http://www.slate.com/id/2090083/) on the subject, claiming that her humanitarian credentials are basically fraudulent. There have been various threads on the SDMB about her (sorry, don’t have time to search for a good 'un right now). Interestingly, Hitchens was called as a witness by the [Vatican](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa#Miracle_and_beatification) during MT’s beatification process. (I say interestingly because engaging a “devil’s advocate” like this is one of the more enlightened things the RC church does, IMHO) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/32 "2011-04-28T15:30:04Z")
**Christopher Columbus** : enough of a national hero that he has his own holiday, yet considered a villain by many (for his treatment of the Native Americans, for one). Among historical politicians, **Andrew Jackson** is one who gets a lot of admiration and a lot of disdain. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888/33 "2011-04-28T15:41:31Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > **Christopher Columbus** : enough of a national hero that he has his own holiday, yet considered a villain by many (for his treatment of the Native Americans, for one). He did indeed report, “These people are kind and gentle. They would make good slaves.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-are-judged-to-be-both-good-and-evil/579888.md?page=1)