# People who can't debate **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138 "2011-11-07T04:36:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![raskolnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47c2d/32.png) [@raskolnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raskolnik)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/21 "2011-11-07T14:00:23Z")
What I want to know, is this ‘being proud of one’s ignorance’ a generational thing, a woman thing, a Canadian thing, or a purely individual thing? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/22 "2011-11-07T14:01:31Z")
> [@raskolnik](#): > > Seriously is there any way to have a debate with someone who doesn’t bother to read ANYTHING about the world, but has an opinion on everything. > -One of my coworkers is a women in her late 50’s. She is Canadian, and is convinced the US and the PRC have an equally repressive government. She has also said that China has freedom of religion. I asked her about the underground Catholic CHurch, the status of Tibetan Buddhism, and the FG. She said “Well I don’t know what they are so it doesn’t matter, but America is worse.” > -Is there any use in talking to this woman, or can I just write her off as an idiot? > -Now, I haven’t even LIVED in the US most of my adult life, so I don’t understand where her attitude comes from. She attacks the US but only very subjective drivel like “The US is an armpit” I said “that’s an emotional argument, and not based on any facts.” By the way she also has said that “the UN, the BBC, and THE CHINESE PARTY’S OWN NEWSPAPER” were not trustworthy. > -Really, I feel she is being willfully stupid, but still has opinions but no facts. She responds to a certain-person-being-in-prison-and-winning-a-nobel-prize with “That happens in America too!” Last time I checked we have MLKjr DAY in the US, not call him a traitor and lock up his family too. > My head hurts. Anti-Americans are so stupid they should apply for American citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/23 "2011-11-07T14:04:16Z")
It’s more of a Fox News thing, I’d guess, but while it shames me to admit that a fellow Canadian could act this way, I gotta admit that we have idiots among us, too. But I also have to admit that the attitude predates Fox News, too. Predates Canada, I’m sure. There were probably ancient Greeks lamenting the determined stupidity of their peers, though they’d be doing it in that faggoty moon-man jabba-jabba Greeky language that no sane person talks nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/24 "2011-11-07T14:16:10Z")
Two somewhat conflicting answers: 1. Yes, I’ve noticed a lot of Americans have a persecution complex. They complain about bad cops, bad water, bad government. Seriously, they do not know what any of these things are. When you have to bribe just to get a passing grade, when you have to bribe so the cops won’t take you to jail, when you have to boil all the water to drink it, then you know. 2. But, yes, not everyone cares enough to debate. There isn’t any point in “debating” with these people. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/25 "2011-11-07T14:17:10Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > . . . One word, that really helps, with these types, in my experience, is ‘Indeed!’. Smile, nod, throw out an occasional ‘er’ or ‘um’, then, ‘indeed!’, and you’re done. No debate. Why would you bother? Don’t forget ‘interesting’. > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’m not sure it’s possible to be willfully stupid unless you’re running for public office. > [@raskolnik](#): > > What I want to know, is this ‘being proud of one’s ignorance’ a generational thing, a woman thing, a Canadian thing, or a purely individual thing? It’s everywhere. Treasure any pockets of its absence that you find. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/26 "2011-11-07T14:45:53Z")
I had a co-worker that believed that Sylvia Browne can really get in touch with dead people, and that there’s another life/universe/word/whatever that has unicorns fairies, gnomes, flying horses, ect. She also insisted that Atheism is a belief system, as much as I argued that it’s got nothing to do with “belief”. Everyone poked fun at her, (to her face), about her faith in the “spiritual medium”, and to her credit, she took it well… but it wasn’t worth the effort to try and talk some reason into her. I tried, until things got uncomfortable and she got a little deffencive. Some people just don’t want to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/27 "2011-11-07T14:46:48Z")
This thread shows a surprising absence of mention of both **Starving Artist** and **Clothahump**. Which is somehow surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/28 "2011-11-07T18:45:06Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Don’t forget ‘interesting’. “That’s a FASCINATING, though REMARKABLY ignorant and uninformed opinion! THANK you for sharing it.” said with the emphasis the caps indicate works, too. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/29 "2011-11-07T19:39:02Z")
> [@raskolnik](#): > > Seriously is there any way to have a debate with someone who doesn’t bother to read ANYTHING about the world, but has an opinion on everything. I am not sure that one can have a debate in those circumstances, but it is fairly easy to find occurrences where it appears to be the goal of various posters on the SDMB. Just wander through Great Debates some time. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/30 "2011-11-07T19:46:59Z")
> [@raskolnik](#): > > Seriously is there any way to have a debate with someone who doesn’t bother to read ANYTHING about the world, but has an opinion on everything. > My head hurts. The answer is no, but the question is why do you bother to try? Most people, even informed ones, don’t generally like to debate and they aren’t interested in debate. Your mistake was in assuming that everyone with an opinion they are willing to share is someone who is also interested in debating that opinion. When you know better, you do better. And avoid giving yourself headaches. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/31 "2011-11-07T19:58:33Z")
I can see where one has the right to believe crap, but when one starts spewing crap at others isn’t there a social responsibility to, at the very least, warn others that the path they are being led down is indeed strewn with crap? ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/32 "2011-11-07T20:00:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I can see where one has the right to believe crap, but when one starts spewing crap at others isn’t there a social responsibility to, at the very least, warn others that the path they are being led down is indeed strewn with crap? Let em’ step in it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/33 "2011-11-07T20:04:00Z")
Respond with “Bless your heart.” Or: “Canada closed all of its institutions for the specially mentally challenged and gave them all bus tickets to the United States.” ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/34 "2011-11-07T20:06:53Z")
> [@raskolnik](#): > > What I want to know, is this ‘being proud of one’s ignorance’ a generational thing, a woman thing, a Canadian thing, or a purely individual thing? I couldn’t possibly say it’s a Canadian thing, because obviously morons exist in every society, but you will find in some Canadians a distinctly un-American bias. Hopefully this is a very small minority of people, but I do hear that sentiment occasionally, and it riles me up. You can’t speak rationally to these people because they’re already brainwashed and ignorant enough that you’ll never convince them using facts. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/35 "2011-11-07T20:10:24Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > The answer is no, but the question is why do you bother to try? Most people, even informed ones, don’t generally like to debate and they aren’t interested in debate. Your mistake was in assuming that everyone with an opinion they are willing to share is someone who is also interested in debating that opinion. > > When you know better, you do better. And avoid giving yourself headaches. The thing is, if you continue to state that your opinion is true after I offer an alternate opinion, then you are effectively entering into a debate. You are trying to convince me to change my position. You are arguing that your opinion is right and mine is wrong. I think it’s therefore false that most people don’t want to enter into a debate. It’s natural. What most people don’t want is to actually have to reconsider their own points. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/36 "2011-11-07T20:42:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The thing is, if you continue to state that your opinion is true after I offer an alternate opinion, then you are effectively entering into a debate. You are trying to convince me to change my position. You are arguing that your opinion is right and mine is wrong. > > I think it’s therefore false that most people don’t want to enter into a debate. It’s natural. What most people don’t want is to actually have to reconsider their own points. I disagree with your interpretation of events. If you offer opinion A, then I state that my opinion on the subject is B, if you state that your opinion is true,you aren’t necessarily inviting debate, you may be simply letting me know that my alternate has not convinced you to change your opinion. That’s not automatically you trying to convince me you are right and I am wrong, you may be simply letting me know that your opinion is fixed and I have had no impact on it, and you may very well be content to leave it at that. In other words, instead of viewing it as everyone having an intention to convince everyone else to _change their opinions,_ perhaps everyone is just making it clear that their own opinions aren’t changing or going to change and they have no interest in whether all opinions agree or not. Of course, the way people actually say things makes a difference in deciding whether your interpretation or mine is more accurate. Also, these are issue of opinion. Where it gets crazymaking is when it involves matters of fact. Most maddening of all is issues of mixed fact and opinion, which unfortunately encompasses the majority of issues that people tend to debate. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/37 "2011-11-08T05:28:15Z")
> [@raskolnik](#): > > What I want to know, is this ‘being proud of one’s ignorance’ a generational thing, a woman thing, a Canadian thing, or a purely individual thing? Isaac Asimov : > [@](#): > > Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138/38 "2011-11-08T22:17:42Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > drop dead. [Moderating] Please keep in mind that wishing death or bodily harm on other posters is against the rules here. Please refrain from doing this in the future. [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-cant-debate/602138.md?page=1)