# People who complain about wind turbine plans. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934 "2003-07-30T17:04:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/61 "2003-07-31T20:49:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tdn \* > \*\*I’ve repeatedly said I’d welcome them in my own back yard, in Boston Harbor. Of course, when I said that, you called me a liar. \*\* Well the point lost on you, is perhaps that aren’t as effective in Boston harbor, and that’s why they aren’t putting any there for now. Perhaps one day when they have zillions of fantasy dollars to throw around, they can then go out and build them in a places where they are useless and won’t be a return on the investment. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/62 "2003-07-31T20:50:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > **ABANDON CAPE, ABANDON CAPE!!!** Buh-bye. Don’t forget to tip the maid on your way out. However, I must say… > [@](#): > > \*\*SWEET BLUEBERRY PANCAKES OF CHRIST!!! \*\* …that’s pretty fucking funny. Band name and all that. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/63 "2003-07-31T20:52:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tdn \* > \*\*Where do you come up with this shit? Have you considered a career in creative writing? \*\* What this is something new? Out of sight, out of mind. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/64 "2003-07-31T21:02:09Z")
To try and get this back on track, what did you think of the pictures **TDN**. Again, I could see the objection of they were a few hundred feet of the coast, but those look fine to me, what do you think? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/65 "2003-07-31T21:02:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*What this is something new? Out of sight, out of mind. \*\* I’m out of your sight, and you’re out of your mind. 🆒 You seem hell bent on finding the worst in people, no matter how much crap you have to invent to do it. You’re trying to paint the world as full of evil and selfish people. You’re bending over backwards to find faults that don’t exist. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/66 "2003-07-31T21:03:03Z")
With all the foaming at the mouth you’re doing **World Eater** you’d expect something useful to come out. Ideally yeas people would rather not see big mechanical objects when they sit on the dock and look at the sunrise. That, also, is fairly obvious. If a community decides that it does not want something, no matter how much it would benefit both them and you, you would force it on them. That is basically what I’m teasing out of your threads. You really want to save the world, how’s this? Get the government to give tax breaks to companies that install, maintain and connect to the grid building based alternative power generators. Wind towers in the city, solar on domestic homes. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/67 "2003-07-31T21:07:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*To try and get this back on track, what did you think of the pictures **TDN**. Again, I could see the objection of they were a few hundred feet of the coast, but those look fine to me, what do you think? \*\* I think they look disgusting. Some are less objectionable than others, though. The one from Nantucket is not too bad. That’s the one where they are 13 miles out. The one from Craigville? Yuck. If I owned a house there I would be furious. They look like high tension power lines, which I’ve never found appealing. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/68 "2003-07-31T21:43:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tdn \* > \*\*I think they look disgusting. Some are less objectionable than others, though. The one from Nantucket is not too bad. That’s the one where they are 13 miles out. The one from Craigville? Yuck. If I owned a house there I would be furious. They look like high tension power lines, which I’ve never found appealing. \*\* Sigh… We obviously have different tolerences on appeal. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/69 "2003-07-31T23:57:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*Sigh… > > We obviously have different tolerences on appeal. \*\* Yeah, I guess so. Keep in mind that I take beach-going very seriously. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/70 "2003-08-01T01:43:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > SWEET BLUEBERRY PANCAKES OF CHRIST!!! LOOK AT THOSE PICS!!! THEY TAKE UP A WHOLE .00037 DEGREES OF THE HORIZON, MY EYES ARE BURNING, ABANDON CAPE, ABANDON CAPE!!! > > :rolleyes: > > Seriously, who can’t suck that up? \*\* If only someone had a way of converting arrogant self-righteousness to electricity. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/71 "2003-08-01T11:16:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Grey \* > \*\*Ideally yeas people would rather not see big mechanical objects when they sit on the dock and look at the sunrise. That, also, is fairly obvious. \*\* Well no shit, but we don’t live in fantasy ideal world, some real actual decisions have to be made, with actual repercussions. \*\* > [@](#): > > If a community decides that it does not want something, no matter how much it would benefit both them and you, \*\* If it was a really good idea, I might entertain the thought that the community is composed solely of idiots, and for all we know I could be right. \*\* > [@](#): > > you would force it on them. \*\* Please point out were I said this. \*\* > [@](#): > > You really want to save the world, how’s this? Get the government to give tax breaks to companies that install, maintain and connect to the grid building based alternative power generators. Wind towers in the city, solar on domestic homes. \*\* Yeah good luck doing that with Bush in office. There are many problems at work here, but the NIMBY attitude is something that needs to be stamped out. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/72 "2003-08-01T11:19:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\*If only someone had a way of converting arrogant self-righteousness to electricity. \*\* Or to harness the power of your thick skull. I still maintain the view is unaffected, and you people are idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Coil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Coil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coil)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/73 "2003-08-01T12:25:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*You are all for putting it in a location out of the way where it won’t be “butt ugly” to you, instead of one of the more effective locations for wind power on all the east coast. > \*\* There is such a thing as a trade off. A beautiful view has a value and so has less pollution. If one can achieve a slightly smaller reduction of pollution but not doing damage to a view that a lot of people value it can be a good thing. > [@](#): > > \*\* > I think people, all people need to start making sacrifices. You guys happened to get the call first, and you should answer it. > \*\* **You** think that people need to make sacrifices. What if all people do not share your view? Maybe they value other things than you do. There may be people out there who think that the benefits of wind turbines do not exceed the costs (both direct and indirect). > [@](#): > > \*\* > We obviously have different tolerences on appeal. > \*\* Yes, you obviously do and what makes your view the correct one? Perhaps the opinions of people who are directly affected should carry larger weight? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/74 "2003-08-01T12:40:15Z")
Well the developer’s pictures tend to support the fact that you wont be able to miss the things. Now, paint them a grey/blue with a random paint pattern and they might blend away but currently the people of the Cape have no way to gauge that. Your obvious zeal for wind power has you spitting out a ton of venom that basically tars anyone who opposes alternative power as unconcerned and self absorbed to the point of criminally foisting a ruined planet on their grandchildren. Neither are correct by any stretch of the imagination. I myself just today did not step through mountains of garbage and refuse that was expected 20-30 years ago. I’m also surprisingly pissed off by all the damn birds that are still around when I was told they would all be gone and not wake me up. 😛 Here’s the bottom line. Wind power is expensive and the Cape makes for a possibly profitable wind farm based on current costs and subsidies. If it works there the momentum _could_ lead to similar farms cropping up else where. If it fails the economic costs will have to drop some more before it becomes popular enough to try again. The problem is that the secondary costs such as the quality of local living, impacts on tourism, fishing, etc need to be examined. If the locals do not want the plant (and it is there to benefit them not you) they are under no obligation to put up with it. Honestly the Cape could technically be running on hydro power from Quebec. No carbon dioxide released, clean electricity and no power line views. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/75 "2003-08-01T12:58:11Z")
They look fine to me. Paint 'em gray and get on with it. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/76 "2003-08-01T13:37:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coil \* > \*\*There is such a thing as a trade off. A beautiful view has a value and so has less pollution. \*\* Agreed. \*\* > [@](#): > > If one can achieve a slightly smaller reduction of pollution but not doing damage to a view that a lot of people value it can be a good thing.\*\* Well, obviously. What do _you_ propose? \*\* > [@](#): > > **You** think that people need to make sacrifices. \*\* Energywise yes, we really need to start dealing with this. \*\* > [@](#): > > What if all people do not share your view? > \*\* That’s fine, but just because they don’t share my view doesn’t mean they aren’t a fucking idiot. \*\* > [@](#): > > Maybe they value other things than you do. > \*\* I think people should bump this up a few notches in their “values”. \*\* > [@](#): > > There may be people out there who think that the benefits of wind turbines do not exceed the costs (both direct and indirect). > \*\* Well for the love of god let one of them check in so we can have some decent input instead of “they are ugly waaaah waaaah, they look like big stinky blades, waaaahhh waaahhhh” \*\* > [@](#): > > Perhaps the opinions of people who are directly affected should carry larger weight? \*\* Yes only the people of Cape Cod are affected by pollution, energy dependence, and lack of alternative sources. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/77 "2003-08-01T13:50:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > I still maintain the view is unaffected, and you people are idiots. \*\* Well, fortunately no one cares what you think either way. Who are you? The Man of La Mancha? Why the hell do you have such a hard-on for wind-power anyway? Do you even know anything about it other than you heard it was “environmentally friendly”? You are stupid, arrogant and ignorant. You have no business telling people in another state what they should or should not do in their community. You have no understanding of any of the actual issues involved on either side and thus have no right to criticize anyone or tell anyone what “sacrifices” they should make. Now run along and let the adults discuss wind power. > [@](#): > > Neurotik > How much of a dent would these wind turnbines make in MA energy consumption anyway? California has about 13,000 turbines in operation and they produce only a little over 1% of the state’s energy needs. I think it’s something like 3 billion kw/h annually. How does that compare to other sources of energy? Not much. According to [capewind.org](http://capewind.org), wind power is part of the 5% “other” catagory. This plant has a 420 MW maximum theoretical output (all turbines running at max capacity). This almost never happens - %30-50 is typical. Compare this to the 800-MW Maine Yankee Plant and the 2,630 MW Millstone units in Connecticut. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/78 "2003-08-01T13:55:06Z")
Just remember, for every one of you Nimby’s who would complain that “The view would be ruined! Property values! People would lose their jobs!” just remember 1. there will still be fish in the sea 2. There will still be the sun shining down 3. there will still be tourists coming to the area. Have the areas who have had the turbines installed noticed a drop in tourism that can be directly related to the turbines? In other words, shut the fuck up complaining based on purely selfish reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/79 "2003-08-01T14:04:05Z")
You know, personally I think these towers could be a good idea with minimal impact. I also think the amount of vitriol thrown at people not keen on 130 300 ft towers looming off their horizon is completely fucked up. By what right do you get to stand and point fingers at people who will have to live with these towers? You go on about the benefits of alternative power, releasing us (including you) from foreign oil. But the rub is that you get all the benefits with none of the costs. These people are the ones that have to pay them and they are entitled to object. Indignant fury at their short sightedness is not going to help convince them. You’re so fucking concerned? You come up with solutions to minimize the visual impact. Got any? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934/80 "2003-08-01T14:28:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Grey \* > \*\*Well the developer’s pictures tend to support the fact that you won’t be able to miss the things. Now, paint them a grey/blue with a random paint pattern and they might blend away but currently the people of the Cape have no way to gauge that. \*\* Perhaps they should all chip in and build them out of Waterford crystal, so they’ll be seen even less. :rolleyes: \*\* > [@](#): > > Your obvious zeal for wind power has you spitting out a ton of venom that basically tars anyone who opposes alternative power as unconcerned and self absorbed to the point of criminally foisting a ruined planet on their grandchildren.\*\* It’s not a zeal for wind power, it’s a disgust with perceived casual attitude that certain posters in this thread have displayed. I still have yet to hear a valid argument against these things other then the possible contamination of the view. \*\* > [@](#): > > Neither are correct by any stretch of the imagination. I myself just today did not step through mountains of garbage and refuse that was expected 20-30 years ago. \*\* So by that brilliant logic we can easily extrapolate that waste and energy won’t be a problem 30 years from now. \*\* > [@](#): > > I’m also surprisingly pissed off by all the damn birds that are still around when I was told they would all be gone and not wake me up. :p\*\* The horror. \*\* > [@](#): > > Here’s the bottom line. Wind power is expensive and the Cape makes for a possibly profitable wind farm based on current costs and subsidies. \*\* Sounds good. \*\* > [@](#): > > If it works there the momentum _could_ lead to similar farms cropping up else where. \*\* Sounds good. \*\* > [@](#): > > If it fails the economic costs will have to drop some more before it becomes popular enough to try again. \*\* At which time it will most likely fail again because someone will lobby against their view being corrupted. I’m sure there are many possible reasons a perspective site could be bad, you just tend to only hear about the aesthetic reasons, and that seems sort of shallow to me. YMMV \*\* > [@](#): > > The problem is that the secondary costs such as the quality of local living, impacts on tourism, fishing, etc need to be examined. \*\* Yes of course. \*\* > [@](#): > > Honestly the Cape could technically be running on hydro power from Quebec. No carbon dioxide released, clean electricity and no power line views. \*\* So why hasn’t this been looked into? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-complain-about-wind-turbine-plans/191934.md?page=5)