# People who don't tip **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327 "2007-06-08T23:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/101 "2007-06-10T18:27:48Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] This topic is difficult because of the strong US/non-US divide in it, but for what it’s worth, I find the idea of tipping _as a matter of course_ to be quite bizarre and defeating of the purpose. Y [/QUOTE] It is not US/Non US. Tipping is prevelant over most of the world, but in various fashions. Take a chart I found in the June 3 Travel section of the San Jose Mercury News: Nation…Restaurants…porters…taxis Australia…10% fine dining only…$2 per bag…change China…3% in major cities…$1 to 2 total…0 England…10% if no service charge…$1 per bag…15% France…5-10% (may be service charge)..same…round up Germany…same…same…same Italy…10% plus service charge…same…same Japan… none (service charge?)…none…none Mexico…10-15%…$1…50cents New Zealand…none…none…none In many european nations they have a service charge, supposed to be instead of tipping but sometime a tip is expected on top of it. A 15 % service charge _is_ tipping, but a forced tip, no matter how good or bad the service is. Dudes here on the boards insist that the 10% tip figure in Aus is only in major cities, and came from Americans, many said there was only a “tip jar” in most areas where change was thrown. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/102 "2007-06-10T18:59:00Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] People who don’t tip are socially **dip-shittified**. [/QUOTE] I am quite fond of (my bolding) this phrase and shall use it often. As well as Opal’s ‘grumpy stick’ statement. Ahh, I am enriched. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/103 "2007-06-10T19:39:06Z")
I used to order pizza for my classes for lunch when we were trying to finish early. The pizza place had great pizza and did a freaking awesome lunch business. I would generally call within 5 minutes of their opening and ask for an 11:30 delivery. I would get told that it would be much later than that due to the orders ahead of ours. OK, fine just do the best you can. Then the total would come up “That will be $50 dollars, do you want to put it on a credit card?” “Yup.” “Do you want to put a tip on the credit card?” “Yup, put 20% on it” (phone call finishes) Fast forward to 11:31 that day “Here are your pizzas sir, and thanks for the great tip” “No problem, have a great day” 😃 I tipped 20% when I took the class out to lunch, and pizza was cheaper, so why not tip 20%? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/104 "2007-06-10T19:39:53Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] That implies that a tip is EXPECTED, and that is the problem here. [/QUOTE] Considering that I’d be making $2 an hour at most without tips, yeah, it’s expected. Also, why would you ever expect a pizza in 30 minutes or less? How many places actually guarantee that? The place I work tells people an hour, they get the pizza hot within an hour. If it arrives in 45 minutes, you’re not tipping even though the drivers don’t make minimum wage and it was impossible for them to get there in an arbitrary time limit set by you? If that’s the case, yes you’re an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/105 "2007-06-10T19:41:34Z")
For the record, I get $7.50 per hour (CA minimum wage), the 80 cent per delivery to help cover gas, and tips. Last night I made 17 deliveries, and kept track of my tips so that I could share the data here. For once everyone tipped well, and I went home with a coupla’ bucks. Order total|Tip: 22.40|3.00 20.20|6.00 19.20|5.80 17.50|2.50 13.70|5.00 50.50|10.00 17.90|3.10 50.60|5.00 20.85|2.15 20.60|4.40 23.25|3.00 14.50|1.50 25.40|4.50 21.70|2.30 45.70|4.30 25.40|4.60 26.10|3.90 The two lowest tips are repeat deliveries to the same house. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/106 "2007-06-10T20:13:07Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] If the food servers are upset that their salary is reduced because of room left for gratuity (defined as “a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip” according to [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gratuity)), then that is something they need to get resolved, _ **without the customer being affected** _. [/quote] Ah, yes. Every single waitron and tippable employee in the country should join up and lobby for a totally different system, just to not inconvenience you personally in some way (even though you’d end up paying the same or more). > [@](#): > > If I decide that 1% is an appropriate tip, it’s no one’s business but mine and the delivery person or waitstaff. Society doesn’t have a fucking thing to say about it. Sure we do. We say, you’re a fucking douchebag and a freeloader. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/107 "2007-06-10T20:25:18Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I agree, the system is very confusing. That’s why I give everyone 20%. [/quote] The tricky part is understanding who ‘everyone’ is. If you have no idea you’re supposed to tip in the first place, 20% of nothing is…[Jayne Cobb]uhh… let’s see… carry the zero…[/Jayne]…yep, nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/108 "2007-06-10T20:26:47Z")
[QUOTE=Rigamarole] That’s some story - I’m quite impressed that you had the sense of self-worth, fortitude, and graciousness (not to make any sort of nasty remark about it) to do that at 7 years old. And I can’t believe your mother reprimanded you for it. If my child did that I would pat him on the back and give him $50! Out of curiosity, how old was your brother and how much did they give him? [/QUOTE] He was 11 and I never found out what was in his envelope. He said it was his & it was his business, not mine. My father never gave me a hard time for the incident. My mother was pissed because it made for a less comfortable neighborhood cocktail party. (she never did out grow the '50s) That, and as president of the local GOP chapter (and his wife dearly loved to lord that over God & Sundry) it was understood that phone calls could and often would be made to make life difficult for anyone who displeased them. It’s still local lore about how a pothole that dared occur in front of their house was filled with asphault and smoothed by a steamroller less than 24hrs after its appearance. Also, in my political pin collection, I still have the 4 inch diameter ‘Nixon-Agnew’ button that I found run over repeatedly in the street in front of their house in 1974. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/109 "2007-06-10T20:36:50Z")
I just tipped the woman who twisted my hair;\* cost - $40.00: tip - $5. Boy, was she happy. \*I almost typed “twisted my head.” I’m sure the price \*and \* the tip would have been way costilier. Or maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/110 "2007-06-10T21:00:33Z")
I often get a pizza and a 2 liter drink delivered, and I always give a $4 tip. Unfortunately, I like to order from Papa John’s online, and I kind of like to just tip on the credit card - so if you’re ages late and it’s the wrong pizza and you dropped it so the toppings fell off you still get your 4 bucks. Irritating, and I _will_ call to complain. It’s too bad there’s so much turnover in pizza delivery, though, since if I get the same driver more than once they’re usually quite grateful - most people must tip like crap, because I don’t consider four bucks to be that great, personally. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2007, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/111 "2007-06-10T21:40:25Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] That implies that a tip is EXPECTED, and that is the problem here. [/QUOTE] So wait, you EXPECT them to show up in under a half hour, but you don’t tell them that, and punish the driver for not meeting your undeclared expectations? If the people at the pizza joint could actually read minds, don’t you think they’d be playing hight stakes poker or something instead of delivering pizzas from a living? ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/112 "2007-06-11T00:29:06Z")
[QUOTE=fluiddruid] Ah, yes. Every single waitron and tippable employee in the country should join up and lobby for a totally different system, just to not inconvenience you personally in some way (even though you’d end up paying the same or more). [/quote] Ever heard of unions? Do you know why they existed? Other than that, great point. > [@](#): > > Sure we do. We say, you’re a fucking douchebag and a freeloader. You are not the spokesperson for society, so when you say “we,” it’s obvious you have an overinflated opinion of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/113 "2007-06-11T00:33:12Z")
[QUOTE=black rabbit] So wait, you EXPECT them to show up in under a half hour, but you don’t tell them that, and punish the driver for not meeting your undeclared expectations? If the people at the pizza joint could actually read minds, don’t you think they’d be playing hight stakes poker or something instead of delivering pizzas from a living? [/QUOTE] See this is where your logic is flawed. If I do not give them a tip, it’s not a punishment. On the other hand, if they get a reward (a tip), it’s because they delivered my pizza hot and when I was expecting it. Do you not understand this? Is it really that hard to grasp? You keep going on the assumption that a tip is mandatory. Sorry, chump, you shouldda stayed in college. I would say that 30 minutes or less is a reasonable expectation for a pizza. The funny thing is that most of the time it IS under 30 minutes and the pizza is hot – so that proves it’s doable. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/114 "2007-06-11T00:41:52Z")
[QUOTE=Snarky\_Kong] Considering that I’d be making $2 an hour at most without tips, yeah, it’s expected. [/QUOTE] Not my problem. Find another job if you feel that your wages are in question. > [@](#): > > Also, why would you ever expect a pizza in 30 minutes or less? How many places actually guarantee that? The place I work tells people an hour, they get the pizza hot within an hour. If it arrives in 45 minutes, you’re not tipping even though the drivers don’t make minimum wage and it was impossible for them to get there in an arbitrary time limit set by you? If that’s the case, yes you’re an asshole. If I called your place and they told me that, I’d cancel the order. You’re going to have to provide a cite that says that your pizza place is lawfully paying you under minimum wage, because as far as I know, your employer is required the make up the difference in your pay if it is under minimum wage. But then again, I don’t give a shit. If you’re a pizza delivery driver, you’re either a) an underachiever, b) financially irresponsible, or c) a kid. In any case, I don’t give a rat’s ass if you think you’re getting short-changed. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/115 "2007-06-11T00:43:36Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Dudes here on the boards insist that the 10% tip figure in Aus is only in major cities, and came from Americans, many said there was only a “tip jar” in most areas where change was thrown. [/QUOTE] It’s also nonsense. There is no set figure and no restaurant I go to expects a tip for the service. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/116 "2007-06-11T01:10:12Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] You’re going to have to provide a cite that says that your pizza place is lawfully paying you under minimum wage, because as far as I know, your employer is required the make up the difference in your pay if it is under minimum wage. [/quote] Ever work at a job that pays you less than minimum wage and you make it up on tips? I didn’t think so. > [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > But then again, I don’t give a shit. If you’re a pizza delivery driver, you’re either a) an underachiever, b) financially irresponsible, or c) a kid. In any case, I don’t give a rat’s ass if you think you’re getting short-changed. Bad assumptions, dickwad. And the fact that you “don’t give a rat’s ass” are obvious. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/117 "2007-06-11T01:11:53Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] Ever work at a job that pays you less than minimum wage and you make it up on tips? I didn’t think so. [/quote] No, I’ve avoided them, thankfully. > [@](#): > > Bad assumptions, dickwad. And the fact that you “don’t give a shit” are obvious. OK, fuckstick, tell me a good assumption, then. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/118 "2007-06-11T01:15:25Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] Ever heard of unions? Do you know why they existed? Other than that, great point. [/quote] Yes, of course I know what unions are, freeloader. The point is, people shouldn’t have to organize and massively restructure the entire restaurant industry just because you’re fucking cheap. > [@](#): > > You are not the spokesperson for society, so when you say “we,” it’s obvious you have an overinflated opinion of yourself. Are you arguing that you are closer to cultural norms in regards to tipping than I am? Would you argue that waiters cannot and are not paid less than minimum wage because of the expectation of tips? Would you argue that they are not in fact taxed at a percentage of expected tips, whether they get them or not? Would you argue that restaurant owners, operators, and waitstaff do not set up their wages and food prices dependent on a tipping system? Try again, tightwad. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/119 "2007-06-11T01:20:43Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] OK, fuckstick, tell me a good assumption, then. [/QUOTE] The friend I mentioned earlier who’s retired military, it’s a medical retirement. Until she finds a better job fitting her skills _and_ her disability, she needs to work. She’s not an underachiever, financially irresponsible, or a kid. But you’re definitely a douchebag. Add me to the growing list of not-spokespersons for society who think so. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/120 "2007-06-11T01:26:15Z")
[QUOTE=fluiddruid] Yes, of course I know what unions are, freeloader. The point is, people shouldn’t have to organize and massively restructure the entire restaurant industry just because you’re fucking cheap. [/quote] People should organize for all sorts of reasons. The fact remains that restauranteurs are guilty of short-changing their waitstaff, and the burden rests on the public’s shoulders to compensate. I don’t have to play the game, sorry. Call me what you want, it doesn’t really matter. > [@](#): > > Are you arguing that you are closer to cultural norms in regards to tipping than I am? Nowhere did I say that, and I am not even sure where that’s relevant. What I was saying is that you were laughably appointing yourself to be a spokesperson for society, because you disagree with me. > [@](#): > > Would you argue that waiters cannot and are not paid less than minimum wage because of the expectation of tips? No, I’d argue that restauranteurs underpay their employees, charging that it’s due to system where tips are almost guaranteed. Further, what happens if the tips are pooled and there is one outstanding waiter and two shitty waiters? Does the one outstanding server just get screwed? > [@](#): > > Would you argue that they are not in fact taxed at a percentage of expected tips, whether they get them or not? They’re SUPPOSED to be taxed. But how can you guarantee they are? Whether or not they’re supposed to be taxed isn’t relevant. > [@](#): > > Would you argue that restaurant owners, operators, and waitstaff do not set up their wages and food prices dependent on a tipping system? The premise of your argument here needs a cite. I have never heard that a given restaurant’s pricing structure is different because it’s in a system that uses a tipping model. I’ve been a lot of places around the world, and I’ve never noticed higher prices in restaurants that do not accept tips. > [@](#): > > Try again, tightwad. Likewise, asshat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327.md?page=7)