# People who don't tip **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327 "2007-06-08T23:45:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/121 "2007-06-11T01:29:49Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] I would say that 30 minutes or less is a reasonable expectation for a pizza. The funny thing is that most of the time it IS under 30 minutes and the pizza is hot – so that proves it’s doable. [/QUOTE] See, that’s what makes you a douchebag. No pizza place that I’m aware of provides a 30-minute garuntee, since Domino’s quit doing it, oh, _fifteen fucking years ago_. You really want drivers blowing through stop signs to get you (or some other pompous jackass) a fucking _pizza pie_ before 30:01? And you’ve got the nerve to hand out a “tongue lashing” to some poor slob for getting it there cold? Prick. I hope VCO3 makes your next cup of coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/122 "2007-06-11T01:32:45Z")
[QUOTE=black rabbit] See, that’s what makes you a douchebag. No pizza place that I’m aware of provides a 30-minute garuntee, since Domino’s quit doing it, oh, _fifteen fucking years ago_. You really want drivers blowing through stop signs to get you (or some other pompous jackass) a fucking _pizza pie_ before 30:01? And you’ve got the nerve to hand out a “tongue lashing” to some poor slob for getting it there cold? Prick. I hope VCO3 makes your next cup of coffee. [/QUOTE] Didn’t they have to discontinue that because drivers were getting into accidents and such? ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/123 "2007-06-11T01:34:31Z")
[QUOTE=black rabbit] See, that’s what makes you a douchebag. No pizza place that I’m aware of provides a 30-minute garuntee, since Domino’s quit doing it, oh, _fifteen fucking years ago_. You really want drivers blowing through stop signs to get you (or some other pompous jackass) a fucking _pizza pie_ before 30:01? And you’ve got the nerve to hand out a “tongue lashing” to some poor slob for getting it there cold? Prick. I hope VCO3 makes your next cup of coffee. [/QUOTE] Are you crying over there? You sound upset. Calm down. If you’re delivering pizzas, get there as fast as you can. If you’re late, don’t make excuses. Take your lumps, son. If you find you’re getting too many lumps, well then I guess it’s time to get that GED. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/124 "2007-06-11T01:36:48Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Didn’t they have to discontinue that because drivers were getting into accidents and such? [/QUOTE] They did. And somehow, it was Dominos’ fault that kids were cracking up their cars. 😕 “It was someone else’s fault.” – seems to be a theme, here. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/125 "2007-06-11T01:39:19Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] Are you crying over there? You sound upset. Calm down. [/QUOTE] Crying? Nah. I’m pretty calm, actually. Partly because I can go through life with nearly absolute certainty that I’ve never eaten anything that’s touched a delivery driver’s ballsack. Too bad you can’t say the same. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/126 "2007-06-11T01:41:19Z")
[QUOTE=black rabbit] Crying? Nah. I’m pretty calm, actually. Partly because I can go through life with nearly absolute certainty that I’ve never eaten anything that’s touched a delivery driver’s ballsack. Too bad you can’t say the same. [/QUOTE] Ah, I see. Because I don’t tip, it gives the delivery driver license to tamper with my food and possibly make me ill. Gotcha. Perhaps you should just get that GED anyway. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/127 "2007-06-11T01:48:33Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] Ah, I see. Because I don’t tip, it gives the delivery driver license to tamper with my food and possibly make me ill. [/quote] For a guy who throws around insults about education, you’ve got pretty shitty reading comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/128 "2007-06-11T02:06:59Z")
Look us my adapted country. . . [QUOTE=DrDeth] Nation…Restaurants…porters…taxis Japan… none (service charge?)…none…none. [/QUOTE] Notes “None” and skips discussion. Actually, after having lived for as many years as I have over here, I really like the no tipping system. Service industry employees are paid a living wage, which along with other cost such as air conditioning and ingredients, is passed along to me in the price of the food, hotel room, etc. I don’t have to worry any more about how much they pay their delivery people than I have to worry about if the landlord is getting enough money in rent. As anyone who has lived in Japan knows, you get excellent service here, so the idea that tipping is required for good service is not a universal concept. Better restaurants presumably pay better wages, so you get better service than your cheaper places. However, it’s not likely for a whole industry to change in the US, so I’m sure we’ll never run out of material for Pit threats. > [@AWB](#): > > As to the delivery charge: The Domino’s that I used to work at charged $1.50 delivery charge, which was to offset the increased cost of getting supplies delivered to the store, not from store to home. > > But then, we didn’t charge that $1.50 to carry-out orders, which enforced in people’s minds that the money went to the driver. That is seriously fucked up. If I were to see that my assumption is that the money would go to the driver. It seems to be deliberately misleading by management in order to gain revenue at the expense of the employee. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/129 "2007-06-11T02:13:32Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] Are you crying over there? You sound upset. Calm down. If you’re delivering pizzas, get there as fast as you can. If you’re late, don’t make excuses. Take your lumps, son. If you find you’re getting too many lumps, well then I guess it’s time to get that GED. [/QUOTE] You are one of the most arrogant, pompous assholes I’ve seen on here. And that’s saying a LOT. Jesus… the world just doesn’t need people like you in it. It really doesn’t. I think it’s safe to say that just about everybody would be happier if people like you didn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/130 "2007-06-11T02:43:11Z")
OK, **Dud**. Here you go. After reading about 200+ of your posts, I now think I have a better idea of who you are. I casually read your post to this thread, just before I posted my reply. I was afraid I posted in haste. But now I don’t think so. You, like many people, see the world in a Black and White image. If it doesn’t fit into your world-view, it’s wrong. You’re almost _obsessed_ with the issue of tipping. Since you’ve joined, you’ve posted your views in any thread in which this is an issue. To your credit, you said you usually tip 15-20%. Unless there’s a problem. Good on you for that. But you seem to have a hard-on about the subject in general. To add to the anecdotal post of **levdrakon** , I have a friend who delivered pizzas(at the age of 45) for two years, as a second job, to pay off child support payments. He had a Masters Degree in Chemistry. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/131 "2007-06-11T02:47:24Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] People should organize for all sorts of reasons. The fact remains that restauranteurs are guilty of short-changing their waitstaff, and the burden rests on the public’s shoulders to compensate. I don’t have to play the game, sorry. Call me what you want, it doesn’t really matter. [/QUOTE] I tend to agree with you about the restaurant owners short-changing their staff. I come from a country where tipping is not required, and where waitstaff are paid a decent wage, and i like that system. But the fact is that restaurant owners in America are allowed to short-change their waitstaff because the government—elected by the American people—allows them to. There are specific exemptions in the minimum wage laws for tipped employees, those exemptions rely on the assumption that tips will make up the difference, and the American people bear the burden of responsibility for these laws. That’s why you should play the game—because politicians have, in your name, authorized the short-changing of waitstaff. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/132 "2007-06-11T02:50:30Z")
[QUOTE=OpalCat] You are one of the most arrogant, pompous assholes I’ve seen on here. And that’s saying a LOT. Jesus… the world just doesn’t need people like you in it. It really doesn’t. I think it’s safe to say that just about everybody would be happier if people like you didn’t exist. [/QUOTE] Save your time, the more he goes on the more and more I think he’s just trolling. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/133 "2007-06-11T02:50:56Z")
[QUOTE=DudleyGarrett] I would say that 30 minutes or less is a reasonable expectation for a pizza. [/QUOTE] Fuck…most of the places I go to give 30 minutes for _pick-up_. Sometimes 45 minutes if it’s really busy. Delivery is usually at least 45 minutes, up to an hour fifteen. ---
**Author:** ![Pixiesnix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Pixiesnix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiesnix)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/134 "2007-06-11T03:27:39Z")
Folks, you’re all wasting your time. After tangling with him in the minirants thread, I’ve figured him out. He’s a bitter, angry man who feels the need to take it out on those in the service industry. In his mind, we should all be licking his boots and when he kicks us in the teeth, we’re supposed to thank him for the spontaneous dentistry. It’s not just tipping he’s obsessed with, it’s all aspects of service. He’s like a two-year-old. He wants what he wants and he wants it now, or he’ll scream and yell until he gets his way. And we’re all supposed to smile and give him a cookie for his behavior. He’ll either have a meltdown or fade from the boards. But he’s just not worth your time. ETA: Pretty much what **Snarky\_Kong** and **samclem** said. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/135 "2007-06-11T03:42:59Z")
Crossposting from another thread: As I’ve said before in these incessant arguments, there’s a perfectly ethical way to not tip: before you’re seated by the hostess, say, “Listen, I don’t believe in tipping, and I don’t plan to tip at the end of this meal.” Repeat this warning to your waiter. By doing so, you’re giving the restaurant the ability to enter freely and with full information into whatever deal they want to enter into with you. If you do not do so, then you _know_ that they are assuming that you’ll tip and are treating you accordingly; you’re knowingly taking advantage of their misunderstanding of their intentions; and you are thereby behaving in a deceitful fashion. But if you give them full information, then you’re good to go. Just don’t be surprised or offended if, when they find out you choose not to tip, they choose not to serve you. It is, after all, their choice to make, once they have the information they need to make their choice. This same rule applies to pizza delivery. If you know that they’re expecting a tip, and you plan not to tip unless they behave in an exceptional manner, and you don’t tell them that, then you’re engaging in a lie by omission and behaving unethically. If you tell them, “I’d like a pepperoni, extra-large, and by the way I’m not going to tip you unless you get it here in less than thirty minutes,” then you’re behaving in a far more ethical manner, since you’re giving them the information they need to make a choice. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/136 "2007-06-11T03:48:18Z")
Delivery automatically gets the tip. I know the price if I go and pick it up. It stands to reason that the fact that someone has saved me that trouble and brought it my door increases its value to me. I always tip in restaurants. I tip generously for good service. But I do not tip well for poor service. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/137 "2007-06-11T10:15:20Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] I certainly don’t recall working any harder in my tipped jobs than in my non-tipped jobs. If people needed serving, and it was busy, then we went as quickly and efficiently as we could, whether there was a tip on the line or not. [/QUOTE] When the bar is packed I have no problem with passing 10 people who stiffed me to refill the good tippers glass of water. [QUOTE=mhendo] I did my best to give good service in all the jobs i had, and i also had occasional under-par days (where i wasn’t quite up to standard) in all of my jobs. Some days, for whatever reason, you just have a bad day and don’t work as efficiently or as professionally as you would like, but this happened in tipped and non-tipped jobs. [/QUOTE] But in service industry jobs you have to ‘pretend’ to have a good day even when you’re not. Bartending isn’t like driving a taxi, you’re essentially a ‘friend for hire’. Do I give a shit about your exgirlfriend? No, but for $1 a beer I can pretend. [QUOTE=mhendo] From the customer’s side, i really can’t say i’ve noticed any marked difference either. [/QUOTE] Nor would you even if you refused to tip in a country where it was expected…you’d be out the door before the waitress knew you stiffed her. But if you frequent the same place and it’s known you’re a good tipper it’s like restaurant insurance. And take it from me, once in awhile tip someone deserving something stupid just to give him/her a great day…'cause it will, and they’ll go in back and brag about it. [QUOTE=mhendo] but i don’t need my ass kissed at a restaurant, especially by someone who is so obviously putting on an act. Just be polite, take the order, and get it to me in a decent time period. [/QUOTE] I agree, bartendings a little different, but I’d call a good server one that does exactly this…and don’t sit at my table when taking the order, I just want to slap people who do this. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/138 "2007-06-11T12:56:56Z")
[QUOTE=Cicero] It’s also nonsense. There is no set figure and no restaurant I go to expects a tip for the service. [/QUOTE] These are my thoughts as well. Every time we have this Tipping discussion, it breaks down like this: **Australians** : You don’t tip here. Of course, if Americans want to give us even more money for doing our jobs anyway, we won’t say no. **Americans** : You do too have to tip in Australia! Here’s an article/website (aimed at Americans) which says 10% tip is expected in restaurants! **Australians** : Err, that’s great, but we live here, and we’re telling you that you don’t have to tip. **Americans** : You must be stingy or something, or perhaps you don’t know the customs in your own country. **Australians** : Fine, we give up. Americans are expected to tip 10%, Australians aren’t. How’s that? The closest most Australians come to tipping is letting the taxi driver keep the change (to an extent) from a cab fare. On the Pizza Delivery thing: The Pizza Delivery surcharge here does go to the driver. Pizza Delivery Drivers also get paid reasonably well (about AUD$12/hr plus $3/delivery), so there’s no reason to tip as a result. ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/139 "2007-06-11T13:06:10Z")
Since the delivery charge doesn’t go to the driver - why are we paying a premium? I call in orders to pick up, and don’t pay an extra fee. Who gets the delivery charge? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327/140 "2007-06-11T13:26:41Z")
[QUOTE=Sitnam] But in service industry jobs you have to ‘pretend’ to have a good day even when you’re not. Bartending isn’t like driving a taxi, you’re essentially a ‘friend for hire’. Do I give a shit about your exgirlfriend? No, but for $1 a beer I can pretend. Nor would you even if you refused to tip in a country where it was expected…you’d be out the door before the waitress knew you stiffed her. But if you frequent the same place and it’s known you’re a good tipper it’s like restaurant insurance. [/QUOTE] Right, but this is something quite different from your original claim, which was, if you remember: > [@Sitnam](#): > > There is something about tipping that makes servers work harder and in return patrons get better service. That sentence implies that tipping, _as a general rule_, results in better service. If you believe this, then service in countries where tipping occurs should, on the whole, have better service than countries where it doesn’t. But then, in your more recent post, you say that tipping is like restaurant insurance, and your example about the crowded bar implies that bad tippers get intentionally bad service. So, you’ve gone from an argument that says tipping ensures better service, to an argument that says tipping is insurance _against_ bad service. Those two things might be somewhat similar, but they’re not quite the same thing. I agree with you that a known poor tipper will probably get _worse_ service than a customer in a non-tipping country. What i don’t necessarily accept is that a decent tipper will get _better_ service than a customer in a non-tipping country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-dont-tip/407327.md?page=8)