# People who hate children **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 2, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746 "2009-04-02T19:25:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/161 "2009-04-03T10:17:27Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post… > that because you find something annoying, all society must reshape itself to you… But that is basically what some parents (the bad ones) are asking society to do! That is, they find having to deal with the duties of parenting annoying and inconvenient (as demonstrated by way of their insisting upon bringing them to inappropriate places, or not disciplining them properly in public), so they insist everyone else reshape their lives, wants and peace of mind around how THEY decide they will parent. As I’ve shared before, I have two kids, a boy in his late teens, and a daughter who is pushing 30. I have an adorable granddaughter by way of my own adorable daughter. So I know the difference between “toddler having an unavoidable hissy fit when you’re trying to grab some diapers and formula” and “actively ignoring and allowing one’s children to behave however they want in a place you do not \*need \*to be”. The OP and some of the other posters are trying to make it sound as if the two are one and the same. Come ON! You (collective you parents you:D) know the difference and so do those of us out in society. That is where the annoyance from the public comes in, when we see and know that the screaming brat is a product of irresponsible parenting, and that the parent is not doing a single thing to correct the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/162 "2009-04-03T10:26:59Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Wasn’t it Hitler who first said that “Jews think being a sarcastic dick on a message board is tantamount to genuine human interaction”? [Godwin’s Law?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/163 "2009-04-03T10:27:00Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > But that is basically what some parents (the bad ones) are asking society to do! True, and they’re jerks, too. > [@](#): > > So I know the difference between “toddler having an unavoidable hissy fit when you’re trying to grab some diapers and formula” and “actively ignoring and allowing one’s children to behave however they want in a place you do not \*need \*to be”. As do I–I think I’ve said this explicitly twice so far in this thread. > [@](#): > > The OP and some of the other posters are trying to make it sound as if the two are one and the same. Come ON! You (collective you parents you:D) know the difference and so do those of us out in society. That is where the annoyance from the public comes in, when we see and know that the screaming brat is a product of irresponsible parenting, and that the parent is not doing a single thing to correct the issue. My job makes me familiar with this difference on a daily basis, believe me. I am not excusing sloppy parenting. I am saying that morons who talk about hating kids and offer platitudinal childrearing advice blah blah blah are morons. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/164 "2009-04-03T10:42:37Z")
> [@starwarsfreek42](#): > > Why isn’t it possible for someone to pick up the kid, and walk outside? If the kid’s getting a shot or getting drilled by a dentist, ok, understandable, but a kid that’s crying in the waiting room or in the dairy secttion of the supermarket? Take the kid to the bathroom at least, so the rest of us don’t have to hear it. Come back when the’re done. That doesn’t mean leave the store–that would just teach the kid that throwing a tantrum gets them out of unpleasant situations. It’s not about me being self-absorbed or thinking everyone should conform to my rules because I’m being bothered, it’s about common courtesy. Like keeping your cell phone on vibrate. Nothing would get done if the world catered to those who found certain sounds to be unbearable. How is the parent supposed to keep the appointment she made with a contractor if she’s spending her afternoon holed up in a grocery store restroom? What if there’s someone in the bathroom that also gets annoyed by the sound of a crying child? There are situations where a crying kid is not acceptable; the theater, an adult-oriented restaurant, etc. The grocery store is not one of those places. Go ahead and be annoyed (we all are), but the parent isn’t breaking any social contract by continuing to shop for fruit roll-ups and pot roast while the child is throwing a fit. ---
**Author:** ![Pithy\_Moniker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8dc957/32.png) [@Pithy\_Moniker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pithy_Moniker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/165 "2009-04-03T12:17:56Z")
I believe the children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way. (I’m sorry… a little.) ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/166 "2009-04-03T12:21:40Z")
But teach your children well. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/167 "2009-04-03T12:24:27Z")
When I see someone with the screen name starwarsfreak complaining about children I get the mental picture of someone who is bitter about his inability to get laid. I’m probably _way_ off. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/168 "2009-04-03T12:39:13Z")
As a parent who had kids a bit later in life, I remember the days before having them when I got annoyed by the behavior of some kids, particularly in restaurants. The truth is that some of these behavior issues are the as much the parents’ fault as the kids, so “hating” the kids seems irrational to me. I always was more annoyed with the parent(s). That being said, if you are at a kid-friendly restaurant, and that includes most of the popular chain restaurants in the U.S., and are there before 8:00 PM, you should fully expect that some noise and disruption may occur. Just a fact of life. I totally agree that parents should remove children who are misbehaving, _when possible_. Remember… hate the parents, not the kids. ---
**Author:** ![Suse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Suse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suse)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/169 "2009-04-03T12:43:31Z")
> [@starwarsfreek42](#): > > No, not really. It might be difficult and time consuming, but if I were in that situation, I’d go the extra mile to keep from annoying my fellow milk-buyers. Although, if I were going on a big major grocery trip, I’d probably go out of my way to also appease the kids beforehand, wear out any small ones, and keep them occupied. I’d also make sure to go when I had the time. A promise of a reward for being good would probably help, but I’m no expert. When kids are old enough, you can even leave them in the car while you run in for one thing! A novel idea. I love it when people who don’t have kids tell everyone how they would raise their own. Because when it comes to the moment of actually having to do it, you’ll do what you have to at the time given the circumstances and the child in question, as child A may react very differently than child B to discipline. It’s fine (okay, it’s funny) to predict that you would be the perfect parent who never causes anyone any inconvenience due to your children’s behaviors but it almost never happens that way. No doubt there are bratty kids and shitty parents. For me they tend to stand out because there are so many other kids who are well-behaved and parents who aren’t afraid to discipline their kids. But that doesn’t mean they are the majority, just more noticeable. And a few minutes of someone else’s kid screaming in the grocery store doesn’t hurt me, doesn’t make me late, and doesn’t ruin my day. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/170 "2009-04-03T13:17:54Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > (snip)Also, they now have carts at many stores that don’t have child seats. Regardless, ones with child seats are very convenient for bread and eggs staying separate, IMHO. Sure they’re convenient, if you don’t spend too much time thinking about what the last occupant left in the seat for you. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/171 "2009-04-03T13:18:19Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > [Godwin’s Law?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law) [Joke](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke)? Truly unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/172 "2009-04-03T13:18:23Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > When I see someone with the screen name starwarsfreak complaining about children I get the mental picture of someone who is bitter about his inability to get laid. I’m probably _way_ off. I was thinking that he just hates getting bullied by the 12 year olds at the comic book conventions. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/173 "2009-04-03T13:43:00Z")
> [@starwarsfreek42](#): > > I’m perfectly aware of what other people are experiencing, but\* I don’t give a damn\*. > [@starwarsfreek42](#): > > I don’t really care what the rest of society thinks. This attitude is not one that is likely, in the long run, to make people want to do things your way. I know it makes me want to borrow a couple colicky babies and follow you around every time you step out your door. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/174 "2009-04-03T13:45:48Z")
\< Bab Streisand \> People, People who hate children Are the luckiest people in the world Were children hating other children And yet letting our grown-up pride Hide all the hate inside Acting more like children than children \< Bab Streisand \> ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/175 "2009-04-03T14:13:38Z")
> [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](#): > > I am not the first poster in this thread to ask for evidence of this. Therefore there is doubt. > > Does anyone have examples of this? Or is the OP just making shit up? You know, I WAS going to search a little, find a few threads to demonstrate the point - but then I just read the rest of the thread and realized I did not have to bother, because posters have saved me the trouble. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/176 "2009-04-03T14:17:08Z")
> [@starwarsfreek42](#): > > It stands to reason that professional adults will care for me in my old age, if need be. Although I plan to stay in shape and keep my mind sharp, I guess you never know. But your logic isn’t clear. Why would any children be involved? I won’t have any, and won’t have any coming to visit me. I hope those adults are hatched full-grown out of machines by the time you are in an old age home … 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/177 "2009-04-03T14:31:11Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Some kids are better-natured than others, and some are just full of mischief. However, just about all children can be taught to behave themselves in public, most of the time. And then, there are “those assholes”, the delinquent parents. They can’t be bothered to discipline their kids, and the sky will fall if someone suggests that little Bobby or Suzy shouldn’t run around a busy restaurant, where people are carrying heavy burdens of very hot foods and plates and bowls. Or that perhaps they shouldn’t treat the clothing racks as jungle gyms. It’s inconvenient for the workers, it’s annoying to the other customers, and it’s even dangerous for the kids themselves. Anyone remember the thread we had about a kid who managed to mutilate herself on an escalator? IIRC, her mother had been warned about the kids playing around that machinery, and told the warner to get lost. But it’s the kid who has been maimed for life. > > This wasn’t from **Kobal2**. I am 51, and not really shut in. I’ve raised my own kid, and I loved her then and I love her now. However, I did discipline her. She was NOT allowed to touch things in a store. What an amazing concept! She wasn’t much given to temper tantrums, though when she did throw them, they were doozies. And I traded babysitting services with other moms, or traded other services, when I wanted or needed to go somewhere that wasn’t appropriate for her. The thing about trading babysitting is that the kids think it’s a playdate, and it’s really not more time or trouble than watching your own kids. If you want to be a responsible parent, you DO need to spend some time with your kids. > > I do hate most kids. However, what I hate is the poorly disciplined results of bad parenting. Kids do not have to be whiny little brats, parents make them that way. And the whiny selfish little brats of today are NOT who I want to be taking care of me in the future. Seriously. They grow up into whiny selfish big brats in their twenties and thirties, and they might never mature. > > Sometimes a tantrum is unavoidable. But many times, I see parents ignoring a child’s request to go to the bathroom. Little kids have little bladders. If you’re taking a child shopping, you will need to schedule pit stops, and you will have to acknowledge the fact that maybe, just maybe, the kids might get tired or hungry or bored before you do. > > These are not random observations. I see this parental behavior in relatives and aquaintances. If I see it in friends, usually this means that the friendship isn’t going to last very long, as I have standards I set for my friends. > > Mostly, I think, the people who complain about kidhaters should take a long hard look at their parenting skills, or lack of them. If people are complaining about YOUR kids in particular, don’t just brush it off, thinking that your little angel is perfect. I rather strongly suspect that your parenting skills did not appear to bystanders at the time as good as they appear, in hindsight, to you. I could easily be wrong in this, but honestly - people have a natural tendency to remember their success and not their failures. That’s really the issue here is - no-one (or very few) people think THEY are, were, or are going to be “bad parents”. Everyone has seen examples of “bad parenting” though. That’s part of the human condition - parents aren’t always perfect, some (the truly bad) don’t even try, and things were always ‘better in the good old days when we parents exercised real discipline and kids were respectful of their elders’. That’s been the rallying cry of the older person since Roman times, if not before. The main cultural diference now, it appears, is that there are lots of people these days who choose to take on this attitude even though they are not themselves old, and critisize parents who are the same age as them (or older), not for failing to match their (non-existent) parenting skills, but for failing to match the parenting skills they IMAGINE they MIGHT have, or half-remember their own parents having. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/178 "2009-04-03T14:43:02Z")
The thing is, even though you don’t “allow” your children to touch stuff in the store, once they’re able to move about independent of you, they just may test the boundaries and touch stuff. Growing up is a learning process. I think most parents have been surprised by their usually obedient kid going 'round the bend in a public setting. It sucks, and most parents will pull the kid aside, remove them from the store, or at least correct them when it happens. We’ve all seen the inattentive parent of banshees, but most of the time, parents try to do their best. It’s unrealistic to think children should be kept in a box somewhere until they’re fully ready to interact with the adult world and all its complexities. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/179 "2009-04-03T14:58:33Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > The thing is, even though you don’t “allow” your children to touch stuff in the store, once they’re able to move about independent of you, they just may test the boundaries and touch stuff. Growing up is a learning process. I think most parents have been surprised by their usually obedient kid going 'round the bend in a public setting. It sucks, and most parents will pull the kid aside, remove them from the store, or at least correct them when it happens. We’ve all seen the inattentive parent of banshees, but most of the time, parents try to do their best. It’s unrealistic to think children should be kept in a box somewhere until they’re fully ready to interact with the adult world and all its complexities. Yup. The unstated assumption many people seem to be operating under is that they themselves were not bothersome to others when they were kids (or that their kids did not bother others), so why should they have to put up with … ? Now it is possible that everyone taking umbrage at other people’s spoiled little brats were themselves all sweetness and light as kids, or their own children were perfectly disciplined wonders, but permit me to doubt self-reported memory of this. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746/180 "2009-04-03T15:13:41Z")
Walmart? Olive Garden? You can’t seriously believe that you are going to visit these places, or others like them, and not encounter children. Anyplace that carries children’s merchandise or has a children’s menu **is** going to have children there. They are aiming for the family demographic, as is painfully obvious to even the casual observer. If you were bitching about having your romantic late evening dinner at Club 21 ruined by an unruly toddler, you’d have a valid point. The fact of the matter is that you shouldn’t go to establishments that are deliberately courting the family segment of the market. Spend a little more and go to places that are trying to attract people like you. Sure they cost more, but one of the things you are paying for is the child-free atmosphere you so highly prize. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-hate-children/491746.md?page=10)