Reminds me of when former NYC mayor John Lindsay was a guest host on GMA. He was interviewing a woman from the Daughters of the American Revolution. He asked her if her ancestor fought on the side of the North or the South. :smack:
This was a guy who made a run for the Democratic Presidential nomination just a few years before.
Starting with the date is not fair. Many, many people could easily tell you about the assassination of JFK if you led with that. Going from the date is a different thing entirely - indeed, I would guess many people would be able to answer the question “What date was John F Kennedy assassinated” who would struggle with “What happened on November 22, 1963?”
The order in which we remember things matters. Were I to ask you “Name all the state capitals that start with C, and name them all in 30 seconds,” almost all educated people would struggle with that. I bet 99% of people couldn’t get them all. But if I asked you “What’s the capital of Ohio? Nevada? New Hampshire? Wyoming? South Carolina? West Virginia” you could probably correctly remember Columbus, Carson City, Concord, Cheyenne, Columbia and Charleston, all almost immediately, and of course would happen to know all those names start with C. Exactly the same information, but the first question is very hard, and the second relatively easy.
I’m not sure why this would appear in a book about WWI.
Books about WWII, on the other hand…
My reason for picking something that would go in the left pile would be more practical. If I pick something mentioned in class, I’d need to add more depth than if I inform them of something new. One of the main unwritten rules I had with writing papers for teachers is to bring up something that is novel, whether that’s a different perspective, new information, or an unusual topic.
The opimistic reason is that they are educstors and love to leaen and think. The cynica reason is to not want to hit them with things they have preconceived ideas about, as you may disagree and make them more critical of you.
Also when I went to school they talked about starting to de-emphasize specific dates and emphasize the bigger picture in history teaching.
Plus, my history classes didn’t cover or didn’t get to if they were supposed to cover, recent history. I was just barely able to understand when the JFK assassination actually happened, so obviously it was extensively discussed and in immediately following years where we could fully understand, and the ongoing Vietnam War discussed and debated (tricky going from pro-war teachers one year to anti-war the next, easy to get in trouble 
). But I don’t think WWII or certainly the Korean War was ever covered in a history class I took through high school (I had virtually no non-quantitative courses in college or grad school, and obviously a lot of people don’t go past HS). I know about WWII from reading about it myself, not school.
I think that might be the explanation why a lot of people, and I believe there are in the US, have no real idea what WWII was even if they’ve heard the term. It wasn’t covered in their school and they don’t read about history themselves. That’s not a likely explanation for man in street interviews where person after person (in the US) can’t put the Civil War in the right century, but for WWII it seems a possible explanation in some cases.
I / II…it’s just I. LOL! Thanks for the catch!
One of the main reasons I rebelled at going to school was that the textbooks, especially history didn’t tell the full story. I few times I did some research on my own (don’t remember the topics) and when I brought up what’s I’d read to the teacher, I’d be told that it wasn’t part of the lesson. I was in and out of public school for years and ended up with a state tutor for a couple of years.
In the meantime, i read up on ‘real’ history, particularly The Vietnam Wa…errr…Conflict which we just finally ended our in involvement with. I read different accounts of the My Lai Massacre, and they were far different from the network news. When I brought it up for discussion with my Dad, all he said was Lt. Calley and dropped the subject.
What happened on 11/22/63? Aldous Huxley and C.S. Lewis died.
We’re in a crucial period in history in that within the next two decades there likely won’t be any adult participants/survivors of WWII, and Korean and Vietnam wars alive, much less able to accurately document what happened there and then.
I don’t want to start a debate, but the Japanese government must be fully aware that the last Korean Comfort Women are nearing their life’s end. Up to 200,000 Korean, Filipino and Dutch females (some barely in their teens) were forced into camps to serve as “Comfort Women” for Japanese soldiers (I’m purposely carefully choosing my words). In 2015 Japan set up a reparation fund and offered an apology which many of the Comfort Women rejected and is a matter of contention between South Korean and Japan up to today.
An event that preceded the My Lai Massacre was the No Gun Ri Massacre where between July 25 and July 29, 1950 hundreds of South Korean men, women, children and babies were forced to evacuate their villages as the North Korean army occupied them. Their movement was stopped at No Gun Ri bridge as suspicions were high that there were disguised North Koreans amongst them. They were forced to seek shelter under the bridge when they came under aircraft fire and once under the bridge they were fired upon by the U.S. Military for several days. The actual death toll is unknown, but hundreds died.
I learned about No Gun Ri because of the outstanding South Korean movie “A Little Pond” directed by Lee Saang woo. When I brought up the movie and incident during lunch with my boss and her husband, his response was: Well that’s war."
I’ll leave it up to those who seek to learn about this ‘major historical events’ for South Koreans to read and digest what they choose to.
People can sometimes be weirdly arrogant about certain historical knowledge.
Like I was recently lurking on the reddit thread about the Donner Party. A guy posted that he feels sad whenever he meets someone who doesn’t know anything about the story. He feels sorry for such people. He was all like “HOW CAN YOU NOT KNOW YOUR HISTORY!”
I mean, really. I can understand feeling frustrated when someone doesn’t know a major historical figure (one of my friends once asked me if Harriet Tubman was white or black) or event. But the Donner party doesn’t meet any of those criteria, IMHO. It’s an interesting, riveting story of hubris and the will to survive. But I don’t believe the fact I didn’t learn about it until I was well into adulthood is a sign I was failed by the educational system.
Besides RickJay’s on-point comment about leading with the date rather than the event, this is a really good example of the way we think about history. Not to pick on you, because we all do it: we think, “If an event was important to ME, if I recall it as a great tragedy or a great success or a great watershed, then it OUGHT to be equally important to everybody else, goddammit!” I think this is especially true for events that took place when we were children or teenagers.
I was alive when JFK was killed, but I was only three and have no recollection of it. I can intellectually grasp the importance of this for people who lived through it, and as a history buff with a good memory for names and dates, I recognize the date right away (I also recognize it as the death date of Huxley and Lewis–hi, Baker!). But I would never say it was basic information, information that everyone should have.
On the other hand, why it is that the entire WORLD isn’t better informed about Watergate is something I’ll never understand…:smack:
Damned Oswald.
The most impressioning date from my childhood? January 28th 1986. I wonder how many people know that one instantly?
This one is really sad and a bit frightening.
I was a 20-something y.o. friend set up his TV and a movie was playing (can’t recall the name of the movie). In the movie there’s a scene where a dorky white guy get’s into a rap battle on stage with a black guy in a club full of black customers. The crowd is actually liking the white guy until he pulls up the hoodie on his white jacket and it’s pops up into a cone. The friend seemed lost for a while and finally says, “I know why they’re mad at him, he looks like a conehead, and they’re scared of coneheads!”. I looked at him and said you don’t know about the KKK and with a straight face he said no. I left shortly after. SIGH
I immediately thought of a particular event that took place in early 1986…I would have guessed January, late January at that, but wouldn’t have ruled out February. No way would I have been able to tell you the exact date, then, if you’d named me the event and asked for when it had taken place; but given the date, and ignoring the “28th” part, I was about 99% sure of what you were talking about. (And when I looked t up I was right.)
Of course, I was 25, no longer a kid. But you’re right–why “should” we know the date of JFK’s assassination and get a pass for not knowing this one?
I was too young to remember the JFK assassination and while I don’t remember the exact date (looked it up, 6/5/68), but remember it was 1968 and watching the news live on TV. I asked my Dad what was going on and he said Robert Kennedy was shot. I still remember seeing him laying on the ground Even at that young age I know he was the second Kennedy to be assassinated, even without really understanding what assassination meant.
Even in the US (and no doubt a common feature of parochial education everywhere), the effects of a religion-only educational diet are stunning:
and
“robust instruction in Talmudic discourse and Jewish religious law, but not a word about history, geography, science, literature, art . . .” (emphasis added)
(Disclaimer: I use these ‘Jewish’ examples simply because, as a member of the tribe, I was aware of them. As I said, I have no doubt that instilling ignorance is pretty much common to all such absolute religious ‘education’.)
It’s true. I know someone who was home-schooled with pretty strict Conservative Christians parents and there is a lot that they are uninformed about. Some of it isn’t due to ignorance either; it’s due to the parents deliberately misinforming them about stuff to fit their beliefs.
Ha! I have – he tastes like chicken.
The stuff from the right pile had not been mentioned in that year’s class. It was all just a regurgitation, but from previous years. And a lot of the stuff in the left pile wasn’t something wide done at a low level; most of us went for a relatively-narrow part but in depth. About 18 papers on Carlismo in my class alone and not two on the same aspect; five on the rise of the Roman Empire ranged from the Punic Wars to an analysis of legislative slide.