# People Who May/May Have Been Agnostics/Atheists **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 28, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801 "2010-08-28T16:51:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/1 "2010-08-28T16:51:11Z")
Who are some notable people who kept a veneer or religion but actually may have been agnostics or atheists? For instance among the Presidents of the United States I’ve read speculation (in a sane forum not conspiracy theorists or extremnists) that Eisenhower, Nixon, and Obama may be nonreligious along with John McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/2 "2010-08-28T16:55:41Z")
It has been fairly well established that Jefferson was not a Christian but was, instead, a deist. That doesn’t make him an agnostic so I suppose that may not match your requirements. It will be difficult to find any POTUS who self-identified as an atheist. I can’t imagine a time in our history when being an atheist would not be the kiss of death politically. That is unreasonable, but it is reality. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/3 "2010-08-28T16:59:30Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Who are some notable people who kept a veneer or religion but actually may have been agnostics or atheists? For instance among the Presidents of the United States I’ve read speculation (in a sane forum not conspiracy theorists or extremnists) that Eisenhower, Nixon, and Obama may be nonreligious along with John McCain. I cannot help but suspect some slight disingenuousness in this question. What makes you think President Obama is an agnostic or atheist? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/4 "2010-08-28T17:02:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > What makes you think President Obama is an agnostic or atheist? Everything I’ve read about Obama says that he was never a regular church goer until he got into politics. According to Game Change, after his daughters were baptised, none of the family went to church much. But I don’t think that makes him an agnostic. I think he’s more of a deist like Jefferson. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/5 "2010-08-28T17:14:41Z")
This is probably as close to an objective view of this as you’re going to find: > **[Religious affiliations of presidents of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_affiliations_of_United_States_Presidents)** > > The religious affiliations of presidents of the United States can affect their electability, shape their stances on policy matters and their visions of society and also how they want to lead it. While no president has ever openly identified as an atheist, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, and William Howard Taft, were speculated to be atheists by their opponents during political campaigns; in addition, a survey during the presidency of Donald Trump showed that 63% of Americans did no Almost ... If you’re going to go by “Well, he didn’t go to church very much,” you’re going to include a whole lot of the Presidents. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/6 "2010-08-28T17:14:52Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > What makes you think President Obama is an agnostic or atheist? > > Everything I’ve read about Obama says that he was never a regular church goer until he got into politics. According to Game Change, after his daughters were baptised, none of the family went to church much. > > But I don’t think that makes him an agnostic. I think he’s more of a deist like Jefferson. Hell, he could be like my best friend from college. I, the ostensible atheist, go to church far more often than she does, but she says she believes. She just doesn’t like regular church services. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/7 "2010-08-28T17:16:50Z")
The biggest surprise to me: Peanuts creator Charles Schultz became a Humanist later in life: > **[Charles M. Schulz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_M._Schulz)** > > Charles Monroe "Sparky" Schulz (/ʃʌlz/ SHULZ; November 26, 1922 – February 12, 2000) was an American cartoonist who created the long-running comic strip Peanuts, which features the characters Charlie Brown and Snoopy. > Schulz was born in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and developed an interest in drawing while growing up in Saint Paul. He was conscripted in 1943 and served in the United States Army during the final years of World War II. After returning to Minnesota, Schulz began his comic strip care... > [@](#): > > Schulz, reared in the Lutheran faith, had been active in the Church of God (Anderson) as a young adult and then later taught Sunday school at a United Methodist Church. > > From the late 1980s, however, Schulz described himself in interviews as a “secular humanist”:[39] > “ I do not go to church anymore… I guess you might say I’ve come around to secular humanism, an obligation I believe all humans have to others and the world we live in.[40] ” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/8 "2010-08-28T17:21:29Z")
Every politician and famous person in Canada may be an atheist/agnostic, but we don’t know because we don’t freaking get into their private business like that. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/9 "2010-08-28T17:31:08Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Hell, he could be like my best friend from college. I, the ostensible atheist, go to church far more often than she does, but she says she believes. She just doesn’t like regular church services. Oh I believe it. I never go to church and I absolutely believe there’s a higher power at work in the universe somehow. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Every politician and famous person in Canada may be an atheist/agnostic, but we don’t know because we don’t freaking get into their private business like that. Aside from the “big name” politicians, America doesn’t either. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/10 "2010-08-28T17:31:17Z")
Reagan actively and aggressively sought the support of the Religious Right but rarely attended church while president. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/11 "2010-08-28T17:31:49Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Every politician and famous person in Canada may be an atheist/agnostic, but we don’t know because we don’t freaking get into their private business like that. Boy, you Canadians are strange. By the way: What are you wearing? ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/12 "2010-08-28T17:33:00Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Every politician and famous person in Canada may be an atheist/agnostic, but we don’t know because we don’t freaking get into their private business like that. Same here in the Netherlands, with the exception of the christian parties, where members are generally expected to be some sort of christian (though there are a few Jews and Muslims and others to be found there). The leaders of the largest christian party (the Christian Democrats) alternate between Protestant and Catholic for traditional reasons. The smaller christian parties are mostly protestant. The father of a friend used to be a protestant minister but has been an atheist/agnostic at least since he finished university until the end of his life. I’m not sure how many of his congregation knew that. Outside of some groups and regions, there’s really not any pressure here to pretend to be religious. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/13 "2010-08-28T17:38:17Z")
Newt Gingrich was Baptist most of his life (he converted to Catholicism last year) but cheated on his first two wives and subsequently divorced them. He married the women whom he was cheating with. I’d say that counts as “keeping a veneer of religion.” I’d also say that this probably should be moved out of General Questions. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/14 "2010-08-28T17:55:51Z")
Abraham Lincoln was probably an atheist. He privately said some very disparaging things about religion and Christianity, was described by a close friend as “stubbornly, vexingly skeptical” on matters of religion and the same friend said he once wrote a book denouncing religion which he and other friends convinced him to burn. George Washington seldom went to church and refused to pray even when he did. His friends and intimates say they never saw him pray in private either. Religion was something he just never discussed. Thomas Jefferson was about as close to being an atheist as he could have come without saying it outright. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/15 "2010-08-28T18:43:02Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > It has been fairly well established that Jefferson was not a Christian but was, instead, a deist. > That doesn’t make him an agnostic so I suppose that may not match your requirements. > > It will be difficult to find any POTUS who self-identified as an atheist. > I can’t imagine a time in our history when being an atheist would not be the kiss of death politically. > That is unreasonable, but it is reality. Is this definitely true? I don’t know a great deal about Jefferson’s beliefs. But I did come across one of the religious rights newsletter (“Focus on the Family”?) where the author argued that people making this argument used one particular passage written at one point of his life of relgious doubt as proof that Jefferson was always like this. For the majority, Jefferson was religious, or so the author claimed. I don’t know if this is true or not. IMO both the left and right will use past figures to buttress their arguments, often with flimsy evidence: Hilary Clinton saying a few years ago that Jesus was born in a manager because Joseph and Mary were homeless, when actually the Bible has them crowding into Bethelehem to pay taxes. But I also think Jefferson was a bit of a sphinx too. Perhaps there are some Jeffersonian scholars who can answer this question better. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/16 "2010-08-28T19:03:12Z")
> [@EdwardLost](#): > > > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > > Every politician and famous person in Canada may be an atheist/agnostic, but we don’t know because we don’t freaking get into their private business like that. > > Boy, you Canadians are strange. > > By the way: What are you wearing? The trouble with getting into the religion of politicians in Canada is this: between the French-Canadinas and the original Irish immigrants, who were Catholic, and the huge influx of Italians and Portugese in recent decades - a huge proportion of Canadians are Catholic. The original informal “state religion” of protestant England even recognized this and separate Catholic school boards are still recognized in several provinces. Now add the huge recent influx of Pakistanis and East Indians, and various other Asians who are usually NOT Christian, and trying to play to the conservative Christian crowd as if this were Texas does not work too well. (Except maybe in rural Alberta - which is why idiot Prime Minister Stephen Harper is violating this norm at his peril and has still not gotten a majority). Several people writing about their experience in the USA have mentioned that the Americans seemed to care about religion a heck of a lot more than anyone in Canada ever did. Nobody in Canada ever asks “what church do you go to?” in my experience. Except for the occasional passing mention in an in-depth news article, or the guess that a politician is Catholic due to their french background, I could not tell you what denomination any politician is; and if, when or where they the go to church is totally irrelevant to daily news. I suspect the overwhelming 80% dislike GWB had here and high approval rating Obama gets here are helped by the relative prominence of religion for one and the de-emphasis of it for the other. ## Significant talk of God in politics here is seen as rank hypocrisy; the anti-abortion fanatics get minimal attention or support too. BTW, today I’m fully dressed in gender-appropriate attire. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/17 "2010-08-28T19:10:23Z")
How about define what you would accept as a Christian and what you would not accept as a Christian and then we can give you a General Questions type answer to the OP’s slander about Obama. Hint: Obama is a Christian unless being a Democrat is a disqualification. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/18 "2010-08-28T20:00:31Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > > [@Gagundathar](#): > > > > It has been fairly well established that Jefferson was not a Christian but was, instead, a deist. > > That doesn’t make him an agnostic so I suppose that may not match your requirements. > > > > It will be difficult to find any POTUS who self-identified as an atheist. > > I can’t imagine a time in our history when being an atheist would not be the kiss of death politically. > > That is unreasonable, but it is reality. > > Is this definitely true? It’s definitely true that he rejected all the supernatural aspects of Christianity. he called himself a Unitarian, not a Deist, but he completely denied the divinity of Jesus or any possibility of miracles. He said (among other things) that the miracles stories of Jesus should be regarded in the same light as Greek mythology, and that “I cannot find one redeeming quality in Orthodox Christianity.” He also wrote his own version of the New Testament (popularly called “The Jefferson Bible”) in which he removed all miraculous or supernatural claims about Jesus, including the resurrection. The totality of his writings on the subject amount to far more than a stray comment here or there. He was consistent and emphatic in his rejection of Christian doctrine. He did claim to be a “Christian” under his own definition, which was as a follower in the ethical teachings of Jesus, but believed and insisted that the Christian religion was a distortion of Jesus’ teachings, that Jesus was not God and did no miracles. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/19 "2010-08-28T20:45:48Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Newt Gingrich was Baptist most of his life (he converted to Catholicism last year) but cheated on his first two wives and subsequently divorced them. He married the women whom he was cheating with. I’d say that counts as “keeping a veneer of religion.” Well we’re just talking about belief here, not actions. I see no reason why someone couldn’t be a believer and yet do those things. Look at mel gibson 😉 It’s a function of the particular way a person interprets christianity, and how they apply it to their personal circumstances. And/or they could be someone that constantly fails and then asks for forgiveness. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801/20 "2010-08-28T20:51:17Z")
Is this thread ready for a godwin? The religious often claim Hitler was an atheist and vice versa. Of course it’s a matter of little importance, but on this one I’d lean towards him being atheist, and occasionally stating belief as a tool. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-may-may-have-been-agnostics-atheists/551801.md?page=2)