# People who need (almost) no sleep - is this a disorder? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 17, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998 "2003-03-17T14:56:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/1 "2003-03-17T14:56:27Z")
I have a good friend who used to date a man who needed practically no sleep. This man slept at most 2 1/2 or 3 hours a night whereupon he was fully rested. My friend isn’t someone who would lie to me, and I had heard about this condition(?) from somewhere else, but I kept trying to find the catch. The man was very intelligent, and seemed otherwise normal - he had a degree from a top university. My friend would report that this fellow would get up and do other things after getting his 2 1/2 hours sleep. A search on the internet for this condition turned up no references. There’s no mention of people who need less sleep than usual, only the common wisdom that humans need 6-10 hours of sleep at night. So I’m wondering what is the deal here? Are there a few people who have evolved to need no sleep? What is the name for this? Is there a downside to this condition? Is it impossible? I read somewhere that Thomas Edison told people he needed no sleep but in actuality he slept 8 hours a day… two hours at a time. It seems scientists all say we need sleep to regenerate, etc. If the condition is a real one, and humans require sleep to regenerate, etc., how are these individuals able to get away with no sleep? What with the search to create the 14-days-without-sleep-soldier you would think scientists would be paying big bucks to study these people. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![dylan\_73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecccb3/32.png) [@dylan\_73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dylan_73)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/2 "2003-03-17T15:57:33Z")
Hmm…can’t find the cite right now, but I’ll go seaching for it…anyway, I saw a TV programme on (I think) the BBC that was studying the causes of Catalepsy (where you suddenly fall asleep at odd times or under stress). They found that a certain part of the brain produces a chemical that keeps you awake (by default we’re asleep). When it runs out, you fall asleep until it replenishes itself. At the end they speculated that it might be possible to produce a drug that would alllow us to stay awake all the time without any side effects. It was as though sleep itself was actually a disorder and was completely unneccesary. I’ll go searching for links now… ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/3 "2003-03-17T17:09:42Z")
I’d never heard there was a chemical that kept us awake and that the default state is “sleep”. If it were that simple a mechanism, I imagine there would be many instances of people being in a permanent “sleep state” and I have never heard of that (comas don’t count). I am eagerly awaiting your reference. The U.S. military is trying to come up with a drug that will keep soldiers awake for a week or two at a time. If sleep is so unnecessary, then why didn’t people who slept less win out in the evolutionary game? So I want to know more about these oddball individuals who purportedly get a full night’s sleep in under three hours, and if there’s a catch? ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/4 "2003-03-17T17:28:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rusalka \* > \*\* If sleep is so unnecessary, then why didn’t people who slept less win out in the evolutionary game? \*\* How do you know this isn’t the case? There are animals, such as the sloth, who sleep a lot more than us. There are animals that sleep a lot less than us too, or at the very least, a lot more lightly, such as cats or dogs. Perhaps the Neanderthals died out because they slept 12 hours per day, and their competition only slept 9 hours, giving them 3 more hours per day for survival needs. (I pulled this out of my ass, but it does illustrate the point of my question) ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/5 "2003-03-17T17:42:51Z")
This is nothing about nothing, but Super Bowl-winning coach [Jon Gruden](http://www.activedayton.com/ddn/sports/daily/0122arch.html) and Iosef Stalin seem to share a similar habit. Both of them seem to have spent their non-sleeping time working. ---
**Author:** ![dylan\_73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecccb3/32.png) [@dylan\_73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dylan_73)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/6 "2003-03-17T17:58:08Z")
Damn…I can’t find it. I need to know the name of the chemical, but all I can remember is that it started with “M”. I’m pretty sure my gf recorded it though, so I’ll find out details this evening and report back tomorrow. **Rusalka** : Dunno about the evolutionary thing…the programme didn’t explore that aspect. It is, however, worth keeping in mind that to “win” in evolutionary terms just means you have sex and have kids. Maybe those who didn’t sleep were seen as antisocial and couldn’t score? 😉 Anyway, have a good St Patrick’s Day, and Happy Birthday to Me. I’ll report back tomorrow with details… ---
**Author:** ![dylan\_73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecccb3/32.png) [@dylan\_73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dylan_73)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/7 "2003-03-17T18:08:36Z")
Argh! I’m _so_ stupid! I meant Narcolepsy, not Catalepsy…no wonder I couldn’t find it! Anyway, read [this](http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/narcolepsy.shtml). The chemical is actually called Orexin. Quote: > [@](#): > > Orexin has potential to become a lifechanging drug for narcoleptics. It could also alter all our lifestyles. Orexin, it seems, plays a vital role in waking us up. Without it we would be naturally asleep all the time. At night, your body clock stops the hypothalamus producing the neurochemical and we go to sleep. Could an orexin drug keep us awake all the time, without side effects? ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/8 "2003-03-17T18:12:31Z")
Thanks for the link to the Gruden article. Unfortunately they mislabeled him an “insomniac”. Insomnia is a negative condition where you _need_ more sleep than you are getting, or you can’t fall asleep when you should. I’m talking about people like the coach referred to above who don’t need more than 3 hours sleep to feel refreshed. I’m amazed the medical profession isn’t more curious about these people. To the poster who talked about evolution, as you pointed out, animals have a wide range of sleep times, and it doesn’t affect their survivability. My question was sort of rhetorical, but in general, I wonder why there isn’t a downside to getting less sleep? What are those “short sleepers” trading off? Again, by short sleeper, I mean those people who are consistently sleeping 3 hours and don’t need more. ever. I’m not talking about those people who sleep less out of sheer will and necessity, and catch up on the weekends. ---
**Author:** ![Winnie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e480ec/32.png) [@Winnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winnie)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/9 "2003-03-17T19:44:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dylan\_73 \* > \*\*Damn…I can’t find it. I need to know the name of the chemical, but all I can remember is that it started with “M”. > \*\* Melatonin? [About Melatonin](http://www.sleepfoundation.org/publications/melatoninthefact.html#1) ---
**Author:** ![gummo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5daacb/32.png) [@gummo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gummo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/10 "2003-03-17T22:00:28Z")
I knew a woman who claimed to NEVER sleep. She worked at a security gate at my friends gated community. Night shift. In place of a normal sleep schedule. During the day, she ran a business and went to school. She claimed to have slept only a couple times for a couple hours in the past YEAR. Some sort of disorder. She could of course be lying, but I knew her for over a year and would be surprised by that. I looked around the net for information on such a disorder but never found anything. Just some fuel for the fire. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/11 "2003-03-18T09:10:20Z")
I read a magazine article a couple of years ago about someone who suffered a severe head injury, and couldn’t sleep after that. He still needed hours of quiet rest each night though. ---
**Author:** ![yme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/35a633/32.png) [@yme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yme)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/12 "2003-03-18T14:20:58Z")
Maybe he hits the Ski Slopes. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/13 "2003-03-18T16:23:14Z")
It was said that Margaret Thatcher could manage on 2-3 hours of sleep when she was Prime Minister. Look what it did to her . Let that be a warning to everyone. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![hauss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5fc32e/32.png) [@hauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hauss)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/14 "2003-03-18T17:49:59Z")
Before this post goes any further, does anybody know for sure that people exist for years by only getting a couple hours a night without any negative effects (all i have heard here so far is hearsay)? If this is true, these people are much different biologically than everyone else. Sleep is the backbone of a human’s well-being… Fuel ---
**Author:** ![shelbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@shelbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shelbo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/15 "2003-03-18T18:04:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rusalka \* > \*\*If sleep is so unnecessary, then why didn’t people who slept less win out in the evolutionary game? \*\* The non-sleepers had the same eyes as the sleepers – they couldn’t see so well in the dark. They tended to blunder around in the dark, making lots of noice bumping into things, which drew the saber-tooth panthers, who ate them. The non-sleepers also tended to trip and get head injuries, and to fall off of cliffs and into rivers and such. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/16 "2003-03-18T18:17:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hauss \* > Before this post goes any further, does anybody know for sure that people exist for years by only getting a couple hours a night without any negative effects (all i have heard here so far is hearsay)? Well, I wouldn’t put myself in the category of “a couple of hours a night” sleep required; however, for the vast majority of my life, I’ve awakened after between four and four-and-one-half hours sleep. Also, I’ve never used an alarm clock. > [@](#): > > If this is true, these people are much different biologically than everyone else. Funny you should mention this. I was just discussing this very thing with a friend yesterday afternoon. She asserts that I’m not human! > [@](#): > > Sleep is the backbone of a human’s well-being… My friend’s comment aside, perhaps sleep is the backbone, but each individual organism, being individual, very well may require a different amount of sleep to keep that backbone healthy. ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/17 "2003-03-18T19:11:45Z")
Monty, that’s interesting, do others in your family have similar sleep requirements or are you the only one? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/18 "2003-03-18T19:46:39Z")
I’ve no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/19 "2003-03-18T20:39:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gummo \* > **I knew a woman who claimed to NEVER sleep.** Was she a [Breatharian](http://www.breatharian.com)? ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998/20 "2003-03-18T20:57:46Z")
FWIW (no cite), I recall hearing in a lecture by a sleep researcher that stories of people who never sleep or only sleep a couple of hours a day inevitably turn out to be apocryphal. When observed in a laboratory, these people always turned out to be be getting significant amounts of sleep, both during the night and in the form of naps during the day. They would then self-report that they had only slept for an hour or whatever. In the words of the researcher (more or less) “If you find one of these prodigies, I’d love to meet them – 'cause I never have.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-need-almost-no-sleep-is-this-a-disorder/161998.md?page=2)