# People who open carry, how much police harassment do you put up with? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 1, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710 "2015-01-01T20:59:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/41 "2015-01-02T12:23:03Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > And your username is apt. At least I am not afraid to go out in public unarmed. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/42 "2015-01-02T12:31:29Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Then my job is done. Maybe I can’t take your guns away, but anything I can legally do to make it more of a bother to open carry is my goal. I believe the fewer guns being carried around, the fewer innocent people will be killed by accident (or on purpose) by people I am supposed to trust have proper training and temperament for gun ownership. I hope you have to defend your right to carry to law enforcement every time you leave the house with your big bad firearm on your hip. Heh. The only person I know who open carries is a former judge and prosecutor in a smallish southern city. I’m picturing his interaction with the police when you call 911. “Hey, Bob, how’s the wife and kids! What? Someone’s worried about mah gun?!! Well, bless him for bein’ a good citizen and lookin’ out for criminals! Hey, yuh gotta see this one!” [**unholsters**] “Ah jes’ bought it from that good ole’ boy ovah in Shermanville who’s gettin’ rid of some of his collection…took it out to the range last weekend, shot like a dream!” And then they’re off talking about hunting, the range, women, and bourbon. (Yes, my friend sounds like Foghorn Leghorn with a JD.) ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/43 "2015-01-02T12:32:45Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > At least I am not afraid to go out in public unarmed. Well nor am I; I’ve never owned a firearm because I’ve never seen a reason to, personally. But I’m not scared of people who (legally and hopefully sensibly) carry one around with them, either. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/44 "2015-01-02T13:23:36Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Then my job is done. Maybe I can’t take your guns away, but anything I can legally do to make it more of a bother to open carry is my goal. I believe the fewer guns being carried around, the fewer innocent people will be killed by accident (or on purpose) by people I am supposed to trust have proper training and temperament for gun ownership. I hope you have to defend your right to carry to law enforcement every time you leave the house with your big bad firearm on your hip. I never cease to be amazed at some people’s Unwarranted Self Importance. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/45 "2015-01-02T15:46:53Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I can’t help but think that Fear and a few other dopers should stay out of Arizona. It might cause their brain to asplode. It’s not the guns that make me loathe Arizona. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/46 "2015-01-02T16:02:50Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > And you’re white, in case anyone here was wondering. > > Ask a black man about his experiences open-carrying. Oh, that’s right, you can’t, because he’s dead. > > Sorry to be so gauche, [but carrying a firearm, legal or not, in an open-carry state or not, even if the gun is a toy, can get a black man shot.](http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2014/08/john_crawford_shooting_open_carry_for_whites_open_season_on_blacks.html) Interesting link. There has to be more to that story though, right? Under no circumstance should he have been shot, but there must have been more to it than the police just walking up to him and gunning him down. ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/47 "2015-01-02T16:19:03Z")
You’d like to think so but nope. Just walks up and cold blooded murdered him and got off scot free. ---
**Author:** ![rock\_party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@rock\_party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rock_party)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/48 "2015-01-02T16:30:25Z")
Do cops leave the black guy with dreads and sagging pants carrying a gun alone? How about the guy with a turban and a beard? Something tells me the white guys with facial hair are about the only open carry folks who’d not be harassed by the police when carrying. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/49 "2015-01-02T17:34:04Z")
> [@rock\_party](#): > > Do cops leave the black guy with dreads and sagging pants carrying a gun alone? > How about the guy with a turban and a beard? > Something tells me the white guys with facial hair are about the only open carry folks who’d > not be harassed by the police when carrying. That is an education and / or a policy problem, not a gun problem. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/50 "2015-01-02T17:43:49Z")
> [@rock\_party](#): > > Do cops leave the black guy with dreads and sagging pants carrying a gun alone? > How about the guy with a turban and a beard? > Something tells me the white guys with facial hair are about the only open carry folks who’d > not be harassed by the police when carrying. You’re right and the situation sucks, it is a travesty. But I seriously don’t think people not exercising their right is going to eradicate racism. BTW getting harassed or arrested by police for open carry can be very profitable! There have been several successful lawsuits for unlawful arrest or detainment. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/51 "2015-01-02T18:21:10Z")
Grew up with guns, hunted, career in the military, volunteer time with police. I feel zero need to prove that I have the right to bear arms by carrying a weapon around with me. It appeals to me no more than walking around mumbling because I have the right to free speech, or dropping to my knees and praying every five minutes because I have freedom of religion. Those behaviors are considered to be nuttery. I feel much the same about sporting a weapon for no good reason. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/52 "2015-01-02T19:22:00Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Interesting link. There has to be more to that story though, right? Under no circumstance should he have been shot, but there must have been more to it than the police just walking up to him and gunning him down. This is not the only article out there about this story. Crawford was gunned down by police because he was a black man with a gun, which is apparently all the information that is needed for police to execute an innocent man, and one, by the way, who was holding an ‘air rifle’ sold at that very Walmart. The fact is blacks with guns are assumed to be threats to be handled with deadly force, no questions asked, even in an open-carry state. Whites, in the same circumstances, are assumed to be exercising their constitutional rights. The contrast and double-standard are sickening, to say the least, but I would not be surprised if some of the Dope’s conservative legal beagles find a way to excuse if not defend it. The original story I linked to is not an isolated incident. There are a number of cases where blacks are killed simply for carrying what is perceived to be a weapon, [and it doesn’t even have to be a gun.](https://www.tumblr.com/search/black+open+carry) Or there will be situations where a group of citizens, both white and black, traveling together, exercising their open-carry rights, [and the blacks get arrested.](http://aattp.org/mixed-race-open-carry-group-strolls-through-detroit-guess-who-gets-arrested/) > [@grude](#): > > I actually think the solution is the other way around, for more non-whites to start open carrying. But no one is going to want to be among those inevitably killed for exercising their rights, so I fully understand why the sickening current status quo stands. > > I’m not going to tell anyone to risk their life over principal, and making everyone less free isn’t the answer. So the solution is more black people need to be shot until what, some kind of epiphany magically occurs in the LEO mindset that an African American with a gun doesn’t automatically equate to ‘criminal’? Yeah, let us all hold our breaths for that one. This is a serious problem that no one wants to address, especially whites who consider their right to open-carry to be uninfringable, because, after all, why should my constitutional expression be curtailed just because blacks are getting shot for doing the same thing I am lauded for? And who do blacks think they are anyway, people? With the same rights to life, liberty and all the rest as me? Oh, come on. > [@grude](#): > > I also think society at large needs to start calling out the asses that call the cops, notice in the story you linked to it all started with a call from a terrified store customer. Curiously no one else was panicking or rushing out of the store, so because of one scaredy cat and out of control cop a man is dead. Calling the police is not the problem. Law enforcement assuming someone is contemplating or engaging in a criminal act just because he carries a weapon while black is. Also, let us not forget another egregious instance of a black person being shot dead for simply carrying a toy in the shape of a gun, [such as the case of a 12-year old in Cleveland recently.](http://gawker.com/video-cops-shot-12-year-old-two-seconds-after-arriving-1663814827) Contrast this with the Cliven Bundy incident when hundreds of armed “Tea Party patriots”, some of whom pointed loaded weapons directly at law enforcement officers and how the standoff ended peacefully with none of them shot…then again, they were all white, weren’t they? Imagine the devastation of life that would occur if hundreds of armed blacks were to assemble anywhere in the US for any reason. I am not really a fan of open-carry laws, but if you want them and believe they are a constitutional right, then the US government and all law enforcement entities should be incumbent to ensure the right is not defacto extended based solely on the race of the carrier. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/53 "2015-01-02T20:07:33Z")
Kenn Blanchard is a gun rights activist, firearms trainer, and new media producer of The Urban Shooter Podcast. He is also black and the author of “Black Man with a Gun” as well as his blog of the same name, [www.blackmanwithagun.com](http://www.blackmanwithagun.com), and he won’t open carry, because he is concerned he might be profiled and shot by police: > [@](#): > > The Rev. Kenn Blanchard, a former federal police officer, has spent 20 years challenging gun control orthodoxy through speeches, Internet campaigns, and his “Black Man with a Gun” book franchise. > > But the man who’s seen by some as the godfather of a nascent African-American gun rights movement says he’s often actually a black man without a gun. > > Concerned about getting falsely profiled and even killed by police as a threatening black man by carrying a legal gun openly, Mr. Blanchard says he refuses to carry weapons in plain sight, even at a time when many white gun owners are carrying openly, in places where that’s their legal right, but which might spark police attention. > > “Open carry, I won’t do it,” he tells the Monitor. “I don’t want to give a police officer that second of time to say, ‘Is he a bad guy?’ I don’t want that to be on me.” > **['Black Man with a Gun' author explains why he doesn’t carry one](https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2014/1213/Black-Man-with-a-Gun-author-explains-why-he-doesn-t-carry-one)** > > Concerned about racial stereotyping by white and black police officers, the Rev. Kenn Blanchard, author of the “Black Man with a Gun” franchise, won’t carry weapons openly, even where that’s legal. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/54 "2015-01-02T20:30:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Kenn Blanchard is a gun rights activist, firearms trainer, and new media producer of The Urban Shooter Podcast. He is also black and the author of “Black Man with a Gun” as well as his blog of the same name, [www.blackmanwithagun.com](http://www.blackmanwithagun.com), and he won’t open carry, because he is concerned he might be profiled and shot by police:['Black Man with a Gun' author explains why he doesn’t carry one - CSMonitor.com](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2014/1213/Black-Man-with-a-Gun-author-explains-why-he-doesn-t-carry-one-video) Yeah, land of the free my ass. Only if you’re white. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/55 "2015-01-02T20:45:00Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Have you ever done so before? And if so, what was the reaction of the police? What’s that phrase, Talk - Action = Shit? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/56 "2015-01-02T21:04:56Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Or there will be situations where a group of citizens, both white and black, traveling together, exercising their open-carry rights, [and the blacks get arrested.](http://aattp.org/mixed-race-open-carry-group-strolls-through-detroit-guess-who-gets-arrested/) That article does quote those in his group as saying the guy who was arrested is an “experienced open carrier.” Since apparently he open carries often and continues to be black I think it can be reasonably inferred that he is not arrested daily for doing it. He is however an advocate for the issue so he routinely pushes the envelope to provoke a response as do his colleagues. Famously [this guy](http://archive.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PHXBeat/60504) was open carrying an AR15 at an Obama rallyin Arizona. He was not killed by the Secret Service. He was not arrested. In Dallas the [Huey P. Newton Gun Club](http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/10/black-open-carry-protesters-are-marching-against-police-brutality-and-the-media-is-silent/) has been staging marches. The Dallas Police block traffic so they can cross. Armed [black men protected businesses in Ferguson](http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nation-and-world/black-residents-protect-white-owned-store-ferguson). They were not killed or arrested. I do not live in an open carry state. It takes an act of god to get a concealed carry permit. So anyone with a gun that isn’t law enforcement is breaking the law. So I have no first hand knowledge of the issue. Are there stats on how many people in those states open carry? Are there stats broken down by race? Are there stats as to how many are arrested, injured or killed while legally carrying and not involved in other illegal activity? Throwing anecdotes does not prove anything. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/57 "2015-01-02T21:48:04Z")
Just watch the online videos of Crawford being shot. He was the victim of what anti-gunners call “SWATTING”, calling the cops whenever they see anyone with a gun, whether legal or not, whether acting normal or not, and describing the person as acting dangerously. In this case, the anti-gun hysteria got a man who was calmly carrying a toy around inside a Walmart killed by the cops. Part of the blame goes to the cops who were quick on the trigger without sizing up the situation, but part of the blame goes to the anti-gun nut who called the police and described the guy as “pointing a gun at people”, which he was clearly not doing. The person who made the false report should be arrested. I don’t open carry, but I have little problem with those who do. Seeing a gun doesn’t make me pee my pants and run screaming like a child, or breathlessly call the cops. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/58 "2015-01-02T23:17:55Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That article does quote those in his group as saying the guy who was arrested is an “experienced open carrier.” Since apparently he open carries often and continues to be black I think it can be reasonably inferred that he is not arrested daily for doing it. He is however an advocate for the issue so he routinely pushes the envelope to provoke a response as do his colleagues. > > Famously [this guy](http://archive.azcentral.com/members/Blog/PHXBeat/60504) was open carrying an AR15 at an Obama rallyin Arizona. He was not killed by the Secret Service. He was not arrested. > > In Dallas the [Huey P. Newton Gun Club](http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/10/black-open-carry-protesters-are-marching-against-police-brutality-and-the-media-is-silent/) has been staging marches. The Dallas Police block traffic so they can cross. > > Armed [black men protected businesses in Ferguson](http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nation-and-world/black-residents-protect-white-owned-store-ferguson). They were not killed or arrested. > > I do not live in an open carry state. It takes an act of god to get a concealed carry permit. So anyone with a gun that isn’t law enforcement is breaking the law. So I have no first hand knowledge of the issue. Are there stats on how many people in those states open carry? Are there stats broken down by race? Are there stats as to how many are arrested, injured or killed while legally carrying and not involved in other illegal activity? Throwing anecdotes does not prove anything. What, do you need more cites showing the disparity by race on this issue before you are willing to admit it is a problem that should be addressed? ---
**Author:** ![LeaveMeAlone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@LeaveMeAlone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeaveMeAlone)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/59 "2015-01-02T23:40:19Z")
I’m a cop and carry a concealed weapon off duty…I don’t understand open carry for the life of me…why advertise that you have a gun? So the bad guy knows who to shoot first? Unless your situational awareness is so good that you are never taken by surprise…sorry seems like grand standing to me… ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/60 "2015-01-03T00:18:33Z")
> [@LeaveMeAlone](#): > > I’m a cop and carry a concealed weapon off duty…I don’t understand open carry for the life of me…why advertise that you have a gun? So the bad guy knows who to shoot first? Unless your situational awareness is so good that you are never taken by surprise…sorry seems like grand standing to me… Intimidation. The pale, frail males can’t go the drugstore without it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710.md?page=4)