# People who open carry, how much police harassment do you put up with? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 1, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710 "2015-01-01T20:59:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/81 "2015-01-03T04:39:29Z")
> [@Octarine](#): > > If you’re in Paris, where open carry is illegal (though concealed carry is fine, funnily enough) and you saw some guy with a handgun on his belt, you’d call the police because he’s probably up to something. Nothing’s black and white. Paris? Permits for concealed carry are difficult to obtain and only granted to those with a valid reason. Simply owning a handgun requires a license and a doctor’s written approval. Every three years. Or were you talking about Paris, Texas? ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/82 "2015-01-03T05:32:19Z")
> [@LeaveMeAlone](#): > > I’m a cop and carry a concealed weapon off duty…I don’t understand open carry for the life of me…why advertise that you have a gun? So the bad guy knows who to shoot first? Unless your situational awareness is so good that you are never taken by surprise…sorry seems like grand standing to me… I’m not a cop. My husband isn’t a cop. We always legally carry but our guns are hidden for just this reason. We could legally open carry, but why let the bad guys know who to shoot first? Besides, if I’m ever in a situation with an insane person shooting everything up, my plan is to hide and try to run away. The last thing I will do is try to shoot a moving target with lots of people running around. Now feral pigs…yeah, I’ll kill them without thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/83 "2015-01-03T06:28:02Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Merely being able to buy and possess firearms IS exercising one’s rights. ::: snip ::::: Nobody - Obama included - is coming for our guns. :::: snip ::::: because the Constitution is still intact and without any remote danger of being suspended. That includes all of the amendments, not just the ones that are being cherry-picked by a special interest group. **Chefguy** … You can go into a gun store in NYC or DC and buy a single shot shot gun without filling out a background check? If so, you are exercising your 2nd Adm. rights. If you have to have a background check or anything besides an ID, ( I’ll not complain about ID ) you are exercising your 2nd Adm rights as restricted by the government. If it does not apply to all small arms ( hand guns ), then you rights are be abridged. Leave carry out of the picture, just buy them and keep them at home anyway you want. It sounded to me as if you were saying that you could do it anywhere in the country. I disagree. If you were just trying to say that you don’t care about actually carrying one around for any reason because it is grandstanding, making all hunters or anyone who uses a gun for recreation wrong for carrying a gun to & fro to the woods. That is kind of silly but because I use my guns for entertainment like hunting which means I have to take them out of the house does not make me a grandstander of any sort thankyouverymuch. Or did you mean they had to be in a locked case with the ammo in a different case and an LEO must check me into the shooting range. Those kind of rights? I have been reading you a long time and you are confusing me here. This does not sound like you. Splain please… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/84 "2015-01-03T08:40:52Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Careful there, concealed carry is not the same as open carry. > [@grude](#): > > Yea it depends on the state but concealed carry usually requires a license. [http://archive.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/20100729arizona-concealed-weapons-law.html](http://archive.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/20100729arizona-concealed-weapons-law.html) > **[Arizona Concealed Carry](https://www.usacarry.com/arizona-concealed-carry/)** > > Arizona Concealed Carry Permit Information - Arizona Concealed Weapons Permit, Arizona Concealed Carry Reciprocity You don’t need a permit to carry anywhere that open carry is allowed. The AZ permit allows you to carry concealed in places like bars and restaurants and in other states that have reciprocal conceal carry license laws. But if I wanted to go walk down the street right now with a firearm under my jacket, legally, I wouldn’t need a permit of any kind. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/85 "2015-01-03T12:27:49Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > And thankfully I live in a state where people have more freedom and liberty. Open carry is legal without permission from nanny, and we are a “shall issue” state for concealed carry, which means the state has to have a reason to not issue a permit, not the other way around. Vermont and Alaska are even better, of course, as you don’t even need to grovel or pay to exercise your constitutional rights. > > A free person shouldn’t have to seek permission from an attorney general or bureaucratic agency to lawfully carry, open or concealed. But while I support those who choose to open carry, I have no desire to do so. And the people of Rhode Island have the freedom and liberty to get laws passed that express their concern about the open carry of handguns and have done so. As you may imagine, there are those that object to those laws. However, it just isn’t a big issue for the vast majority of the people here. To answer the other question posed to me, if I were in Arizona and saw someone open carrying I would not call the police unless something else about their behavior suggested it was warranted. For example, three guys running into a bank carrying shotguns. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/86 "2015-01-03T12:50:32Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > You can go into a gun store in NYC or DC and buy a single shot shot gun without filling out a background check? If so, you are exercising your 2nd Adm. rights. If you have to have a background check or anything besides an ID, ( I’ll not complain about ID ) you are exercising your 2nd Adm rights as restricted by the government. Can you go into any gun store in Arkansas and buy a [M249 Squad Automatic Weapon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249_light_machine_gun) with just an ID? How do you endure such tyranny? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/87 "2015-01-03T13:04:27Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > [Help Center - The Arizona Republic](http://archive.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/20100729arizona-concealed-weapons-law.html) > [Arizona Concealed Carry Permit Information, Concealed Weapon](http://www.usacarry.com/arizona_concealed_carry_permit_information.html) > > You don’t need a permit to carry anywhere that open carry is allowed. I wasn’t saying that. My point is that concealed carry is not the same as open carry. Often, the laws differ for the two. > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > The AZ permit allows you to carry concealed in places like bars and restaurants and in other states that have reciprocal conceal carry license laws. But if I wanted to go walk down the street right now with a firearm under my jacket, legally, I wouldn’t need a permit of any kind. According to this you cannot open carry in places that serve alcohol unless you have a permit: > **[arizona.pdf](https://handgunlaw.us/states/arizona.pdf)** > > 511.75 KB > [@](#): > > Those who Open Carry without a permit/license can’t enter places that serve alcohol. Only those with a valid permit/license issued by Arizona or any other state can enter a place that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/88 "2015-01-03T14:20:29Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > And the people of Rhode Island have the freedom and liberty to get laws passed that express their concern about the open carry of handguns and have done so. As you may imagine, there are those that object to those laws. That’s a very Orwellian definition of freedom and liberty, if I do say so myself. The freedom and liberty to do what the government says you can… uh huh. Yes, I realize people elect presumably like-minded people to represent them, but don’t pretend that passing more and more laws and regulations increases freedom. Quite the opposite, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/89 "2015-01-03T14:31:58Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Can you go into any gun store in Arkansas and buy a [M249 Squad Automatic Weapon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249_light_machine_gun) with just an ID? How do you endure such tyranny? We need to get rid of NFA 34 and GCA 68. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/90 "2015-01-03T14:37:38Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > We need to get rid of NFA 34 and GCA 68. Don’t hold your breath. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/91 "2015-01-03T15:18:34Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > **Chefguy** … > > You can go into a gun store in NYC or DC and buy a single shot shot gun without filling out a background check? If so, you are exercising your 2nd Adm. rights. If you have to have a background check or anything besides an ID, ( I’ll not complain about ID ) you are exercising your 2nd Adm rights as restricted by the government. > > If it does not apply to all small arms ( hand guns ), then you rights are be abridged. > > Leave carry out of the picture, just buy them and keep them at home anyway you want. > > It sounded to me as if you were saying that you could do it anywhere in the country. I disagree. > > If you were just trying to say that you don’t care about actually carrying one around for any reason because it is grandstanding, making all hunters or anyone who uses a gun for recreation wrong for carrying a gun to & fro to the woods. > > That is kind of silly but because I use my guns for entertainment like hunting which means I have to take them out of the house does not make me a grandstander of any sort thankyouverymuch. > > Or did you mean they had to be in a locked case with the ammo in a different case and an LEO must check me into the shooting range. Those kind of rights? I have been reading you a long time and you are confusing me here. This does not sound like you. > > Splain please… :eek: I’m pretty sure I didn’t say any of those things, and that my post was pretty clear. If you’re going to put spin on what I say, then I can’t help you with your understanding. Whether rights have been abridged is a matter for the courts, who have decided, among other things over the centuries, that yelling “fire” in a crowded theater is not free speech. Is free speech then abridged? The SCOTUS apparently feels that states may impose (or loosen) restrictions on gun ownership and still remain within the intent of the Constitution. Your rights only extend to the point where they infringe upon others’ rights. The reason for a background check is not to abridge your rights, but to help protect the rights of others to enjoy life, liberty, etc. without undue fear of some nutcase getting his hands on a weapon. As with any law, it isn’t a perfect tool, but that’s not a reason to not have it in effect. I don’t care about concealed carry, other than the paranoia that it implies. I believe open carry (and no, I’m not including Joe, the moose hunter) is unnecessarily provocative and serves no useful purpose. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/92 "2015-01-03T16:18:25Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’m pretty sure I didn’t say any of those things, and that my post was pretty clear. If you’re going to put spin on what I say, then I can’t help you with your understanding. > > Whether rights have been abridged is a matter for the courts, who have decided, among other things over the centuries, that yelling “fire” in a crowded theater is not free speech. Is free speech then abridged? The SCOTUS apparently feels that states may impose (or loosen) restrictions on gun ownership and still remain within the intent of the Constitution. Your rights only extend to the point where they infringe upon others’ rights. The reason for a background check is not to abridge your rights, but to help protect the rights of others to enjoy life, liberty, etc. without undue fear of some nutcase getting his hands on a weapon. As with any law, it isn’t a perfect tool, but that’s not a reason to not have it in effect. > > I don’t care about concealed carry, other than the paranoia that it implies. I believe open carry (and no, I’m not including Joe, the moose hunter) is unnecessarily provocative and serves no useful purpose. Thanks for ‘splainin.’ > [@](#): > > If you’re going to put spin on what I say, then I can’t help you with your understanding. If I was trying to do that I would not ask for a splainition. Now go back to bed and crawl out the other side… 😃 Or drink more coffee. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/93 "2015-01-03T17:06:11Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Or drink more coffee. 😉 I’m on it. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/94 "2015-01-03T17:32:16Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > That’s a very Orwellian definition of freedom and liberty, if I do say so myself. The freedom and liberty to do what the government says you can… uh huh. > > Yes, I realize people elect presumably like-minded people to represent them, but don’t pretend that passing more and more laws and regulations increases freedom. Quite the opposite, of course. And I disagree. The community as a whole decided that there were certain standards they wish to have in the state for their own safety and peace of mind. As a civilized people, we have determined that certain laws are a good thing. I have decided that I do not wish to live in a community where open carry is allowed, and I have found a place with enough like minded people to make that a reality. And I have the freedom to work, and lobby, and fund efforts to maintain those laws in my community If a majority of the voters of Rhode Island decide that open carry is something they want, they have the freedom and liberty to make that happen. Most importantly, I will not allow you or anyone else to define what freedom and liberty, or patriotism mean. You may arm yourself, and wrap yourself in as many flags as you like. I will not allow you to make any claim of omnipotence as to what freedom and liberty mean. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/95 "2015-01-03T18:30:29Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Grew up with guns, hunted, career in the military, volunteer time with police. I feel zero need to prove that I have the right to bear arms by carrying a weapon around with me. It appeals to me no more than walking around mumbling because I have the right to free speech, or dropping to my knees and praying every five minutes because I have freedom of religion. Those behaviors are considered to be nuttery. I feel much the same about sporting a weapon for no good reason. Sanity and common sense in a gun thread? So it _can_ be done… I live in a state where guns are so beloved that one community [requires each household to own a gun](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia#Gun_law). Nevertheless, I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve seen someone who wasn’t a LEO carrying a weapon. And the last time I did, I was in Illinois. I enjoy shooting, when I get a chance to, and am not especially scared of guns _per se_. So I wouldn’t be unnecessarily unnerved by a gun-toting dude, if he was behaving in a responsible and non-threatening manner. But I would be making judgments about his character, self-esteem and penis size. And **Onomatopoeia** is absolutely right: this country has a double standard about race and gun ownership that is literally deadly to black men. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/96 "2015-01-03T23:17:04Z")
> [@grude](#): > > BTW getting harassed or arrested by police for open carry can be very profitable! There have been several successful lawsuits for unlawful arrest or detainment. Many of those suits were here in Wisconsin. The legislature finally acted and amended laws to reflect the legality of open carry (those laws do no make OC legal, they just recognize that it already is). Training of law enforcement and dispatchers here has been done to nullify bullshit from people like **Fear Itself**. Prior to this there was a case in West Allis where the complainant was subpoenaed to testify at a disorderly conduct trial for a guy who was openly carrying on his own property. The guy who called 911 sounded like a freaking idiot. The man charged with DC walked and was one of the reasons the legislature and the Attorney Generals office worked to codify and publicize the legality of open carry. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/97 "2015-01-03T23:19:18Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve seen someone who wasn’t a LEO carrying a weapon. And the last time I did, I was in Illinois. Was the guy hunting or a security guard? Open carry isn’t normally legal in the flatlands. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/98 "2015-01-04T02:34:57Z")
**Fear Itself** , you still haven’t answered my question. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/99 "2015-01-04T05:28:12Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’m a criminal with a gun. Open carry means I target you and have the initiative before you can fire. Concealed carry means I don’t know who is carrying a gun and have to assume everyone is. I’m certainly no pro-gun advocate, but ISTM the arguments against open-carry in this thread just don’t make sense. The real world is not Counter Strike, and the vast majority of criminals are not trying to kick off a killing spree. Some guy looking to rob a convenience store is not going to see a customer with a weapon and think “Right – I’ll take him out first”. They’re either going to be a somewhat discouraged from committing the crime, or (if it’s really true that it’s logical to assume everyone is carrying a weapon) it would make no difference to see someone armed. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710/100 "2015-01-04T06:15:50Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Was the guy hunting or a security guard? Open carry isn’t normally legal in the flatlands. This was fifteen or so years ago, and in retrospect, the guy was probably a detective or plainclothes LEO. It was in a Home Depot in Cicero, if that means anything to you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/people-who-open-carry-how-much-police-harassment-do-you-put-up-with/708710.md?page=6)